What if you told someone in Big Law that they need to do

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Apr 6, 2024
10:24:23am

cougfanz All-American

What if you told someone in Big Law that they need to do

that schedule for 8 years at 60k a year, with actually required full nights every third or fourth night and at the end of it they get to be an employee of some random corporation with an income restricted by the govt with no ownership or equity opportunities

The light at the end of the tunnel argument seems so shallow in medicine these days.. though I agree incomes remain decent and a more stable floor as compared with law/tech. But no other industry where you “pay your dues” leaves you in that predicament.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Apr 6, 2024 at 10:24:23am

Message modified by cougfanz on Apr 6, 2024 at 10:25:15am

Message modified by cougfanz on Apr 6, 2024 at 10:51:56am

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cougfanz

Previous username: ndfan
Bio page: cougfanz
Joined: May 15, 2011
Last login: Sep 16, 2024
Total posts: 18,591 (1 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Need some genuine advice, I’m sure some on this board have been in my shoes

Pepe Silvia

Apr 5, 8:05pm

Those are rookie numbers. Once you hit 360 hours a month then you almost made it

Longseason

Apr 5, 8:08pm

RE: Those are rookie numbers. Once you hit 360 hours a month then you almost

BaseCoug

Apr 5, 8:44pm

This seems helpful

CBaass

Apr 6, 1:36pm

Attorney?

cougarfann888

Apr 5, 8:10pm

Yep, corporate transactional at a notorious big law firm

Pepe Silvia

Apr 5, 8:11pm

Here is what I would tell you. Have a plan

cougarfann888

Apr 5, 8:16pm

And when I say a plan. I don't mean just a " couple years"

cougarfann888

Apr 5, 8:17pm

I second this advice. Make a plan that gives

LINE

Apr 5, 9:09pm

I did that for ~6 years in Big Law. It was soul crushing, but I got an in house job

slappy

Apr 5, 8:18pm

Does not seem worth it at all for SIX years in hell. Way too long

TaysomJimmerEraCoug

Apr 5, 10:40pm

Agreed. I could/should have gotten out much earlier.

slappy

Apr 5, 11:01pm

Are you the exception as a married guy with interests and the other young bucks are single Alphas who are

CLCougar

Apr 5, 8:31pm

My cousin is at Gunderson Dettmer. His advice to you: you can get the

reagan21

Apr 5, 8:48pm

He’s corrected me…he’s now a partner at Gunderson Dettmer. Now I know how he

reagan21

Apr 7, 10:49pm

Goldman?

Iman23

Apr 5, 8:11pm

Need to establish a chain of yelling and find someone to blow off steam on

DKN

Apr 5, 8:11pm

RE: Need to establish a chain of yelling and find someone to blow off steam on

DiamondMo

Apr 5, 8:12pm

You probably also heard how others deal with this. Drugs, alcohol, prescripcions

chismoso

Apr 5, 8:11pm

Is there no other way? That’s got to take a toll on you and your family.

KingDave

Apr 5, 8:12pm

There is no other way.

OmahaOmaha

Apr 5, 8:13pm

RE: There is no other way.

Malathion

Apr 5, 8:18pm

RE: Need some genuine advice, I’m sure some on this board have been in my

MountainJ84

Apr 5, 8:14pm

Sbarro’s is tough. I’d apply to Pizza Hut or John’s Pizza. Way more reasonable

Malathion

Apr 5, 8:15pm

That’s the point of those firms. Make life as miserable as possible for the first year associates.

JohnnyComeLately

Apr 5, 8:16pm

How much do partners make?

lukeskywalker

Apr 5, 11:56pm

Depends on the firm but a lot. There are level of partners too. Junior, senior, equity and managing.

JohnnyComeLately

Apr 6, 7:13am

a lot = 10M a year?

lukeskywalker

Apr 6, 10:10am

Equity and Managing partners at the Wall Street firms can bring that kind of $$

mobicurious

Apr 6, 10:58am

I’m not a lawyer. I just have a lot of attorney friends. There is certain prestige being a partner in a well known

JohnnyComeLately

Apr 6, 11:22am

At big firms it ranges from $600k for first year partners to tens of millions.

Senora Featherbottom

Apr 6, 10:32pm

Work out consistently. Even if just for 20 minutes. Realize when youre fatigued

cougfanz

Apr 5, 8:18pm

Paragraph 3 is a great and misunderstood point. Complain to no one at the firm.

gwalker

Apr 5, 10:33pm

Very correct. True in investment banking as well.

Trent

Apr 6, 3:22am

NYC is generally toxic

Skidmark

Apr 5, 8:20pm

While I agree NYC is tough, there's plenty of this intensity up and down the east coast in Boston, Philly, and Atlanta

CLCougar

Apr 5, 9:21pm

V&E has a NYC office and they have a better lifestyle.

MountainJ84

Apr 5, 8:24pm

There are 99 AmLaw 100 firms that will pay the same with better life style.

Senora Featherbottom

Apr 6, 10:29pm

Go to the bank and withdraw all of your money in dollar bills. Pour it all over

Forbidden Fruit

Apr 5, 8:24pm

I was at a ward dinner party with couples the other night. After listening for

DiamondMo

Apr 5, 8:42pm

I’m sad reading this. My advice, not that you’ll take it, is don’t do this

gangbusters

Apr 5, 8:34pm

Leave now. Find a small to mid size law firm.

Jdoc

Apr 5, 8:35pm

Just keep in mind you're getting yelled at by a guy who is miserable in his own life, and plan accordingly

Bob Vance

Apr 5, 8:37pm

And with a little luck and a lot of hard work that could be you!

DiamondMo

Apr 5, 8:44pm

You're probably spot on here. Guys like that define themselves by feeding their ego and bank accounts,

CLCougar

Apr 5, 8:47pm

This is a great point. I’ve only been truly yelled at twice in my career, once by a guy in NY who seemed very successful

Breaded Hamster

Apr 6, 1:41pm

My NY colleagues are startled when they work with us and we deal with each other in kindness and respect and balance

zonacougar

Apr 5, 8:44pm

My advice is to only listen to advice in this thread or elsewhere from those who’ve done biglaw

JollyGreenGiant

Apr 5, 8:44pm

I've been informed on CB that working 80-90 hours a week permanently will gain

Nikomedes

Apr 5, 8:46pm

Share some of these posts where you got this impression. It should be interesting to see,

CLCougar

Apr 5, 8:51pm

Oh, it's not that common a sentiment. But it's there, particularly among CBers

Nikomedes

Apr 5, 8:56pm

Yeah, you made it up and can't back it up. I know several CBers who've worked in the City and not one ever

CLCougar

Apr 5, 8:59pm

Nah, mentioned working a ton while kids are young and then change to work less

Malathion

Apr 5, 9:50pm

Your characterization seems spot on, and not that different from what I experienced working in Philly. I just find

CLCougar

Apr 5, 10:35pm

There was one guy who made this claim. I can’t remember who it was exactly but

Ozymandias

Apr 6, 12:32pm

The phrase that: "working 80-90 hours a week permanently will gain you the respect of your kids"

CLCougar

Apr 6, 1:19pm

He was mocking the other guy who said that. I am fairly confident that Niko

Ozymandias

Apr 6, 2:19pm

Maybe, but OP initially stated he "needs some genuine advice"...

CLCougar

Apr 6, 5:22pm

Every. Single. Field. Is. Like. That. If…

Apr 5, 8:46pm

This is correct

cougarBee

Apr 5, 10:54pm

I disagree. Even you say there are exceptions. Yes, dues often need to be paid,

Apr 6, 5:43am

If you latch onto a company that values work-life balance

donnerstag

Apr 6, 2:31pm

Gonna sound crazy but after I heard this song I dumped a bunch of clients and

Forbidden Fruit

Apr 5, 8:59pm

Put in another year. Collect your bonus in 2025 and then bail. You’ll have a big

Scratch

Apr 5, 9:12pm

Don’t listen to the haters on this thread. Life’s too short to NOT make a bunch

homegrown

Apr 5, 9:16pm

My advice, pray earnestly and hard about it. Find out where He needs you. Today

ImuaKahuku

Apr 5, 9:31pm

Anyone saying you have to work big law to make big bucks practicing law is wrong

vegasnative

Apr 5, 9:45pm

Nope. Working for yourself sucks. Have to do all the admin stuff and you’re

Scratch

Apr 5, 10:41pm

I quite enjoy making good money while having great work life balance. Want to

vegasnative

Apr 5, 11:26pm

I was fortunate to drop out of law school after my 1st year clerkship

mobicurious

Apr 5, 9:51pm

BM me if you want to connect.

Cougstreak

Apr 5, 10:08pm

Get out sooner than you think you can. Leaving BigLaw was the best thing that

gwalker

Apr 5, 10:29pm

Stay away from social media. Put your head down and get the work done.

Boring

Apr 5, 10:30pm

Leave NYC. Seriously. Apply for the main office of a firm in the Midwest, south,

Gustav

Apr 5, 10:30pm

Move to where you want to live and start your own firm. You’ll likely have a

Thrill

Apr 5, 10:38pm

You are brave to ask career / life advice from a bunch of strangers

CoolB

Apr 5, 10:47pm

Most of us bust our butts fresh out of school for a fraction of your earnings

Heath Squashwell

Apr 5, 10:50pm

I joined a tech startup out of college, and put in 60-80 hour weeks consistently

espn2011

Apr 6, 12:47am

I started out that way. I probably would have stayed if I were single, but I got

Jay Kay

Apr 6, 12:50am

Yep and 80% is years 0-12. It feels like a cruel set up sometimes 😬

Apr 6, 1:16am

I worked with a lady who was complaining that her teenage kid

bald man

Apr 6, 6:05am

How did she receive that question? Maybe you delivered it in a softer way but if

Apr 6, 10:01am

I didn’t have to type on small cell. So it was delivered soft and long

bald man

Apr 6, 10:07am

RE: Need some genuine advice, I’m sure some on this board have been in my shoes

Apr 6, 8:54am

Is your boss Louis Litt?

Blue Panda

Apr 6, 8:59am

Sounds like you’re doing a medical residency, just less hours, Lol.

Apr 6, 9:20am

To be clear if he is billing 260 hours a month he is working way more than that.

cougarfann888

Apr 6, 9:51am

Aaw dang. Residency was about 320hrs/4 weeks at about 13 bucks an hour.

Apr 6, 9:55am

What if you told someone in Big Law that they need to do

cougfanz

Apr 6, 10:24am

Medical hours are brutal, but at least you don’t have to deal with someone on

Jdoc

Apr 6, 10:54am

Hahah are you serious?

Apr 6, 11:07am

I wasn’t aware that you have trained

Jdoc

Apr 6, 12:08pm

My poor naive child. Have you heard of insurance companies?

Apr 6, 12:39pm

Perhaps it is fair to say that you don’t understand the legal profession and

Jdoc

Apr 6, 1:10pm

Fair. Objectively though one gets paid way less and works way more.

Apr 6, 1:31pm

lol. Oh, if only.

Apr 6, 11:35am

How many times a month does a lawyer intern have to dig crap out of someone’s rectum with their hand?

Apr 6, 11:40am

He’s gotcha there

BYU Grounds

Apr 6, 11:44am

Are you talking about your job or your free time?

CBaass

Apr 6, 1:48pm

They do. And they have to deal with trained legal professionals trying to

Jdoc

Apr 6, 12:17pm

What about a 30 hour shifts every 3-4 days?

Apr 6, 12:37pm

How about living with huge legal cases for several years that become a huge

Jdoc

Apr 6, 1:12pm

Sounds a lot like dealing with complicated patients for years and constantly worrying about their death and suffering,

Apr 6, 1:27pm

<< Deleted >>

cougfanz

Apr 6, 1:35pm

LOL. Look at the lawyers and doctors trying to one-up themselves over crappy hours and midling pay.

kccougar

Apr 8, 8:09am

I think most people billing that kind of time value bill and double

Jdoc

Apr 6, 10:05am

Just get out. It's not worth it.

MyTwoCents

Apr 6, 10:50am

I've gone back and forth between school and higher ed programs. We've gone from

TailgateU

Apr 6, 3:26pm

I worked at a firm like that. Did numbers like the ones you're doing.

Socrates Johnson

Apr 6, 5:22pm

Really tough to EARN your way to financial goals. Get out now and BUILD something.

Bobber

Apr 6, 5:37pm

I’m a partner in Big Law. I’ve made a few posts like this over the years.

Senora Featherbottom

Apr 6, 10:29pm

If you took the UBE and can get reciprocity in AZ, move out here. Great job...

Big McLargeHuge

Apr 7, 11:14pm

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