This discussion is fascinating to me. Most here I assume are LDS and try to

Seriously, though.

DirtyWater

Dec 19, 5:41pm

Relative of Kem Gardner?

Socrates Johnson

Dec 19, 5:44pm

Grandson. The bottle was thrown from Kem's box.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 5:45pm

Is the kid Christian Gardner's son?

cosmohio

Dec 19, 6:06pm

No. The article says that the kid's father Andrew turned him in.

Thrill

Dec 19, 6:47pm

OK, thx.

cosmohio

Dec 19, 7:18pm

Wonder what his institute's policy is on bottle chucking?

foofcoug

Dec 19, 5:46pm

Grandson. I know the family and they’re good people.

cougarblue

Dec 19, 5:51pm

Just made a mistake?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 5:58pm

Adult (not kid) should be locked up for a long time.

HFF

Dec 19, 5:59pm

It won't do one bit of good to anyone if this kid spends even a day in jail.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:03pm

Yes it will. Kid needs to learn the consequences of outrageous behavior.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:16pm

Pretty sure he's learned a lot by now. Best thing now would be some mercy and a

TailgateU

12:58am

He might have learned a lot but he broke the law and there are consequences for

Blue for Life

11:13am

Throwing him in prison for a felony doesn't help her. I'm not saying there

TailgateU

12:26pm

Exactly. Nobody is arguing there be no consequences.

Metallicat

12:32pm

Even a day???

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:20pm

How does it help? What lesson would the kid learn that he hasn't already learned? What deterrent of future crime will

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:00pm

Has the kid been bailed out before?

sfeuz

Dec 19, 8:01pm

No. First time offender who turned himself in.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:03pm

I thought his dad turned him in.

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:11pm

I don't understand your point. Are you implying the dad called without his son's permission? That didn't happen. The dad

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:16pm

My point was the narrative being thrown around was the dad turned him in. It wasn't a loaded question. Thanks for

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:18pm

The point might be that the kid wouldn't have turned himself in if dad didn't.

ochobeeguy

Dec 19, 10:03pm

But even if Dad helped, it happened. Lots of kids improve with parental support

TailgateU

1:00am

Why do we keep talking about an 18 yo man as if he is some 15 yo kid? Not only

Emmett Fitz-Hume

4:53am

I dunno. seems like more 18 y/o act like 15 y/o;s these days...

niqmadu

6:30am

People aren't magically and arbitrarily a "man" at age 18 just because the govt

Saxa

7:05am

How many 18 year olds act like adults? It's an arbitrary number so allow voting

TailgateU

9:47am

At 18 I, and many, know it's incredible stupid to throw a water bottle into

CameronG

11:11am

Reminds me of a frozen turkey. I'd rather see mercy than throw the book at

TailgateU

11:28am

Letting the kid off with no consequences is worse

CameronG

11:37am

He's being charged with a felony. That ruins his life. I just think it should be

TailgateU

12:24pm

Most 18 year olds, heck most 8 year olds, know you can't fire a water bottle

CameronG

12:33pm

A misdemeanor and community service for a man from a family with those kinds of

Emmett Fitz-Hume

12:38pm

So your suggestion is no actual consequence?

BYU-Laie

12:23am

We don't know that he has learned any lesson from this.

Turn and Cough

10:10am

My question is, at 18 did he not know what those dangers were before?

Blue for Life

11:11am

What would you suggest as punishment, if any?

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:23pm

There will be a two pronged approach in going after him. Criminal and civil. On the criminal side a fine, community

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:44pm

Kids from wealthy families usually don't worry much about the civil consequences

shakarocks

Dec 19, 8:57pm

This is a valid point. If it’s not his money, he really doesn’t face any

Lalau

Dec 19, 9:35pm

He'll bounce from petty offense to petty offense through life

Archaea

12:09pm

Are you kidding? How often have we seen examples of rich kids who never learn

CameronG

11:15am

IMO he won't be affected at all by the Civil Consequences. I would suspect

Blue for Life

11:21am

My father would have ripped the arm off of any child

Archaea

12:10pm

He should also be barred from admission to Utah University.

Archaea

12:08pm

Oh yes it will. A day in jail will do him some good.

BlueTroop

Dec 19, 9:02pm

Locked up? Come on now.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:03pm

He likely altered the life of somebody just doing the thing she loved.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:09pm

I don’t see those two things as the same. But jail time doesn’t help.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Even if they are 18 and it is a one time event.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:35pm

It helps a lot. Soft-pedaling violent crime is what doesn't help.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:17pm

I agree jail helps stop crime. But I don’t think jail time in this instance is

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:22pm

It seems the IRS every tax season throws the book at a high profile person.

dratax

Dec 19, 9:08pm

President Hinckley's story on forgiveness seems oddly specific to this situation

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 6:42pm

But the kid in Hinckley's story still did time. Whether or not he happens to

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:20pm

The kid in the story did a few more things than chuck a water bottle so it's

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 10:15pm

Jail time is fair.

SolidBlue

Dec 19, 10:52pm

Maybe. A lot of community service and a civil suit to cover medical bills

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 11:03pm

Comparing to dropping things on cars is ridiculous

Deleted

Dec 19, 10:06pm

How so? In both situation it is obvious what they are doing is going to hurt

HFF

Dec 19, 10:11pm

Not locked up for a violent crime? Come on now.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:50pm

A plastic water bottle.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:56pm

Give me a shot at someone with a water bottle and I can mess up their whole month.

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:12pm

Ok tough guy.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:06pm

Lol what a clown comment

ColonelMustard

Dec 19, 8:52pm

Yeah, and is the death penalty too unreasonable? Yeesh. Let's not get carried away here. Aggravated assault seems

Bob Vance

Dec 19, 9:56pm

So many of you have no concept of how the criminal justice system works. OTOH,

Socrates Johnson

Dec 19, 11:51pm

Not if this was your kid

Jeremy

8:25am

Good things parents don't choose the consequences of their children's felonies

HFF

8:39am

Stop it.

Love Cougs

9:41am

No

HFF

11:06am

Yeah, you would't want

Snipe

Dec 19, 6:09pm

This is only a symptom of something already messed up- best thing

bjc

Dec 19, 6:25pm

This board sure loves to sweep ute missteps under the rug

Ojiisan

Dec 19, 7:00pm

Amen. He saw others throwing it and in the moment you don’t think a water bottle

ColonelMustard

Dec 19, 8:55pm

This is a Utah mob mentality problem. President, AD, Whit, Fans.

ParentingNotForSissy

Dec 19, 10:24pm

If they were "good people" they wouldn't be UofU fans, especially not invested

BYUtka

Dec 19, 9:18pm

Once you're 18, that's the problem with playing a stupid game. The prize is

Emmett Fitz-Hume

Dec 19, 10:53pm

We've never heard this story before

AlternateShot

Dec 19, 11:07pm

What about the cheer coach? Who was

1CougFan

6:23am

BYU banned a kid for life who rushed the field and "tackled" U male cheerleader

The Grrinch

8:28am

He's a Utah fan. His life is already screwed up.

Turn and Cough

9:34am

I just laugh at this kind of stuff. "Oh I know them and despite being unhinged

Mitty

10:35am

And what does "good person" or "good family" even mean in this context?

BYUtka

10:44am

It's hard for crimes like this to screw up the lives of kids with rich families.

dYrtbYkerYder

12:40pm

Also know the family quite well. VERY good folks! Dumb mistake from a young kid.

robocoug

Dec 19, 10:42pm

I actually feel bad for the kid. It was a really dumb decision, but he was just

Team Chaos

Dec 19, 5:46pm

Not a kid, he deserve harsh punishments. This very well could alter the life

HFF

Dec 19, 6:00pm

Ok - I'll bite. Please explain how spending taxpayer dollars to put this kid in jail and keep him there will help our

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:05pm

Ok - I’ll bite should we just ignore all violent crime because somebody isn’t

HFF

Dec 19, 6:06pm

No. Please explain to us why this kid is one who deserves to get "locked up for a long time."

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:07pm

Because the prosecutors have determined he is eligible for up to 5 yrs. If found

HFF

Dec 19, 6:11pm

Tell us more about him. You seem to be the expert. I keep asking for you to tell us but you continue to ignore. What is

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:14pm

He is vile person that took the opportunity to harm somebody for cheering for a

HFF

Dec 19, 6:18pm

Be careful. I think this is true and I think you're bringing unnecessary harm your way. "For with what judgment ye

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:22pm

I’m sorry that I am sympathetic to the victim and want the perpetrator to face

HFF

Dec 19, 6:25pm

You're not sorry. You're blood thirsty. You aren't fooling anyone. You don't know a thing about this kid and yet you

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:28pm

I don’t want blood, I want him to be punished for the crime he committed.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:48pm

RE: Be careful. I think this is true and I think you're bringing unnecessary

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:23pm

I don’t know how you feel OK making all those assumptions based on one dumb

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:24pm

I’ll break it down. He took a full water bottle and threw it at somebody causing

HFF

Dec 19, 6:28pm

Do you want to be judged by your singular worst decision made after the age

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Lol, I can honestly say I have done nothing that would bring charges. It’s not

HFF

Dec 19, 6:33pm

If it’s felony grade-yes

bjc

Dec 19, 7:19pm

Do you think he threw it "at somebody" or threw it onto the field, inadvertantly

Best Guess

Dec 19, 7:07pm

He threw it where there was a lot of people, to me he wanted to hit somebody.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:09pm

The charge carries with it a sentence of up to 5 years

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:33pm

He needs to make full restitution to the victim.

sfeuz

Dec 19, 6:41pm

RE: The charge carries with it a sentence of up to 5 years

bluecougar1985

Dec 19, 9:22pm

You seem to be on the other end of the spectrum where he shouldn't spend a single day incarcerated for an aggravated

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 6:12pm

There will be a civil lawsuit. Most likely he has a trust fund that is at risk. He also will certainly have plenty of

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:19pm

He could lose his trust fund? Say it ain't so!

downtownchrisbrown

Dec 19, 6:28pm

I would be so screwed if I lost my trust fund

creameryon9th

Dec 19, 6:36pm

Some real self worth and confidence there. Guess earning money is out of the

Wife_Apologist

Dec 19, 9:19pm

If a trust fund is lost, someone didn’t set it up correctly. One of the main

SpudNut

Dec 19, 8:22pm

What if the victim wants him to be locked up? She blood thirsty too?

dfudge

8:37am

It's called justice for the victim and sending a message so those who might

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:22pm

That seems a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is suggesting condoning violence. But justice and mercy can balance

unctoothman

Dec 19, 7:29pm

So you get to decide for the victim?

C-dubb

Dec 19, 8:01pm

Nope. The legal system does. Thankfully. That's a lot better than a sports message board.

unctoothman

Dec 19, 8:29pm

Board name...

C-dubb

5:09am

Glad you bit. The kid, who's part of society, will learn that there really are

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:26pm

I'm honestly puzzled by your take

MyTwoCents

6:43am

What evidence do you have that he "deliberately attempt to cause serious physical injury to another person". More than

HarlemCoug

7:03am

He admits to targeting the BYU cheer team and knowing they could get hurt

MyTwoCents

8:37am

Did it cause lasting damage to the victim? What has she said about it?

Tiburon

Dec 19, 6:51pm

At a minimum it was a concussion that on its own can be life altering.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:21pm

They can also recover completely. Guarantee if it was your kid you wouldn’t

Metallicat

Dec 19, 8:14pm

And guarantee if it was your daughter or wife that got hit by the bottle you

CameronG

11:52am

Watch the Pres Hickley talk. You're wrong.

HarlemCoug

11:56am

This isn't the gotcha you think it is

CameronG

12:30pm

I do think there should be consequences. I guarantee if it was my daughter I

Metallicat

12:35pm

Arguing for a rich family to pay a small fine and get community service is

CameronG

12:45pm

This was actually a very interesting discussion in this thread between justice

SJBLUE

Dec 19, 7:20pm

That's brilliant! The judge could sentence him to serve as her butler!

Buster Scruggs

Dec 19, 10:15pm

He turned himself in. What dad would let their kid make that 1st phone call? It's Sunday, you don't have a lawyer. So

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 10:23pm

"He threw a water bottle after seeing others do the same"...when in uteville, do as other yewts do I guess

CLCougar

Dec 19, 5:47pm

He had no choice at that point.

byulover

Dec 19, 5:54pm

Looks like they saw the CB thread yesterday and got moving. Thank goodness

Nikomedes

Dec 19, 5:52pm

Of course he should not have thrown the bottle, but just really bad luck

Blue Heart

Dec 19, 5:54pm

That's not bad luck. There were a ton of people down there. It's not surprising

byubyu

Dec 19, 5:55pm

It’s probably surprising not more people got hit

Blue Heart

Dec 19, 5:57pm

so it was bad luck that it hit someone or that he got caught?

BYU Grounds

Dec 19, 6:12pm

Wow 6 weeks of therapy? That seems like a lot for a concussion.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 5:55pm

It isn't

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:00pm

What type of therapy? I’ve know plenty of people who have gotten

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:01pm

There are varying degrees of concussion - some people are in therapy

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:03pm

Ok genuinely curious. What do they do in the therapy? Like cognitive things

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:04pm

Yes amongst other things. Here is a local clinic website that does this stuff

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:08pm

I haven’t seen that post but sounds bad. Sorry to hear that.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

And I know people who get in car accidents and don't die

Belboz

Dec 19, 9:28pm

"As many as"

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:00pm

True. But I guess I’m not aware of what theory is needed for a concussion.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:02pm

Seems unwise to draw a conclusion ("seems like a lot for a concussion")

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:08pm

I’ve just never heard of therapy for it, but I’m learning about it right now.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:32pm

My son had a concussion in HS Bball game. It was months before he could ..

fan_byu

Dec 19, 8:32pm

Sometimes the therapy is recommended by a lawyer and not by a doctor. I have no idea if that's the case here.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:30pm

Yeah sadly I’ve heard that with other injuries.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:33pm

I'm on the fence of how to handle this situation, but in light of your posts

bluescholar

11:52am

I don't follow your concern. I think I've made a statement of fact, I haven't taken a side on the morals of it. And

HarlemCoug

12:00pm

The effect of a concussion can last a lifetime

Belboz

Dec 19, 9:27pm

I’ve been educated tonight. I guess when I say concussion I was meaning a

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:33pm

Throw the book at him!!! Maybe not the best analogy here…

Reasonable1

Dec 19, 5:57pm

He'll plead to simple assault and get community service.

Mister P

Dec 19, 5:58pm

Which feels right honestly.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 5:59pm

Why will a plea be necessary?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:01pm

So he doesn't go to jail?

Mister P

Dec 19, 6:07pm

Should the prosecutor's job be to see that he doesn't go to jail?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:12pm

I think it's good to make a public example here to prevent it in the future but

NOCAL_YFAN

Dec 19, 6:00pm

How does everyone here know that he has good character?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:02pm

I didn't say anything about his character.

NOCAL_YFAN

Dec 19, 6:02pm

Why let someone off easy if you don't know about them?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:13pm

It’s one thing that always annoys me about CB

BaseCoug

Dec 19, 6:14pm

We have many peculiar folks here

vegas guey

Dec 19, 6:30pm

Hope she sues him and all the money goes to BYU NIL.

Longseason

Dec 19, 6:03pm

I hope she sues in puts it all away for herself, head injuries are no joke.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:05pm

She’d be better off suing the UT AD for the lack of control the AD provided

Q-grr

9:37am

Yeah at 18 you should know not to throw a water bottle from a suite towards

Texas_forever

Dec 19, 6:04pm

Yeah. He knew he was throwing it in the direction of the BYU cheer team

Julius Pepperwood

Dec 19, 6:12pm

A- this is not a kid, he’s an adult B- the act was reckless & malicious C- he

Lifi

Dec 19, 6:16pm

Harlem must be family the way he is defending the perp and dismissing the victim

HFF

Dec 19, 6:26pm

Actually - I know Jocelyn well and have never met the kid. So you're wrong yet again.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Ask her if she think he should serve jail time.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:36pm

And what if she says “no”? Would you back off then? Or still demand blood?

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:40pm

Why do you keep saying that I am demanding blood? I am saying he should get a

HFF

Dec 19, 6:43pm

Which to you appears to have him drawn and quartered and hung in the public

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:51pm

I have literally said I think he should be incarcerated for a long time. In this

HFF

Dec 19, 6:55pm

You know nothing about me. I’ve supported tough on crime policies my entire

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:58pm

Ok but you are comfortable calling me blood thirst for saying he should get

HFF

Dec 19, 7:04pm

I think you have made yourself clear. You aren’t interested in the facts

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:20pm

“You do you” out there in Chicago, here we should punish crime.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:25pm

Haven’t lived in Chicago in years. But hey if you didn’t have anything you

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:43pm

And justice for you.

sfeuz

Dec 19, 8:04pm

I think judging comes far more naturally and doesn’t require much study. But

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:11pm

I especially hope she sues the U of U.

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 7:36pm

I dislike the UofU plenty, but why should it be civilly liable for the criminal act of a fan attending the game?

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 7:43pm

Good way to get nets up in every stadium. Schools cannot be held liable for

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:44pm

Industry standard it to take the lids off bottle when you sell them. It's done in most stadia for this very reason. Utah

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 7:57pm

I guess BYU is below the standard of care as well. I purchased water bottles this year at the stadium with the cap.

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 8:01pm

Why would they be published?

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:06pm

You said it was an industry standard. In my experience, industry standards are generally published so that people who

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 8:11pm

No idea, legally. But they're deplorable, morally. So I hope there's a case.

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 8:35pm

I guess its because we are nice people.... thats why.... unless your name is

niqmadu

6:34am

Just sad all around. Extremely sad for the victim and I hope she can make a

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:26pm

So, don’t punish him? Good grief.

Lifi

Dec 19, 6:32pm

Nice straw man there. Didn’t say that at all.

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:33pm

Punish the kid but that’s not aggravated assault! At most a class A misdemeanor

upperdecky

Dec 19, 6:38pm

It doesn't have to involve a weapon to be a 3rd degree felony.

byubyu

Dec 19, 6:48pm

And even then... a full water bottle from a hundred feet up is def a weapon

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 7:38pm

Have you looked up the legal definition of aggravated assault? Please do so and

Ghost of Peanut

Dec 19, 7:15pm

RE: Punish the kid but that’s not aggravated assault! At most a class A

yahtzee

Dec 19, 7:19pm

Funny how Furlong and Bartle aren’t tweeting about this.

Dangerous

Dec 19, 6:43pm

Seems Harsh imo. But I guess I didn’t interact with the kid.

conetah

Dec 19, 6:52pm

Jail time should could determine other from similar actions in the future.

Cougsanity

Dec 19, 8:10pm

Y'all are thinking wayyyy too hard about this

creameryon9th

Dec 19, 8:22pm

They should just settle to drop the charges. Gardner’s are loaded and take it ou

Big Daddy D

Dec 19, 8:25pm

Guys when I graduated high school we smashed mailboxes for fun

DodgerCoug

Dec 19, 8:57pm

You knocked somebody out cold while smashing mailboxes?

Ghost of Peanut

Dec 19, 9:16pm

A persons head is not the same as a mailbox

Mot

12:39am

Were none of you teenagers, or ever raise teenagers

A_blue_car

Dec 19, 9:53pm

I was, and I broke my fair share of laws. And, I've raised teenagers, and gave

Emmett Fitz-Hume

Dec 19, 11:01pm

I don’t think a single person has argued there should be zero consequences.

Metallicat

6:29am

And I would agree with you, and also would not agree that he should get five

Emmett Fitz-Hume

12:18pm

This discussion is fascinating to me. Most here I assume are LDS and try to

coolblue

7:19am

I suspect it is due to lived experience. Some are identifying with the victim

downtownchrisbrown

7:53am

So true, but if people would step back and TRY to

1CougFan

9:12am

It is interesting. It's also sad to me, from both perspectives. But I think

Buster Scruggs

8:00am

What if it were me?

downtownchrisbrown

7:38am

Sentence him to a summer of work on the BYU Grounds crew.

Spiff

7:42am

If he doesn't serve any time

davidsonlaw

10:45am

The back and forth on this has been very interesting and I think it's a hard

bluescholar

12:21pm

Posting on CougarBoard