What are you talking about? I didn't make an argument. I asked why people are so

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Apr 5, 2024
4:02:02pm

Socrates Johnson All-American

What are you talking about? I didn't make an argument. I asked why people are so

sure that he is done and will never improve? How do they draw a line like that? How is that a straw man? I didn't characterise anybody's argument incorrectly. I linked to a post that made the exact argument I was asking about. Please explain how that is a strawman.

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Socrates Johnson

Previous username: jkccoug
Bio page: Socrates Johnson
Joined: Jul 19, 2002
Last login: Jan 4, 2025
Total posts: 31,374 (2,276 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

What is the source of the conviction that Kalani has “had enough time” and

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 8:50am

Because it's the same issues year after year. He is who he is

TNT

4/5/24 8:54am

What are the same issues year after year?

ManicBlue

4/5/24 8:55am

Poor recruiting. Very poor DL play for 8 years. Keeping poor coaches too long

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:56am

"We need to look at the film." Yet team looks unprepared each week

TNT

4/5/24 8:58am

Yep. Preach.

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:59am

"Every week" is more than a bit of an exaggeration and certainly injuries,

basman

4/5/24 9:08am

Poor DL play for so many recruiting cycles is a key indictment

shammy

4/5/24 9:06am

Families of top players haven't trusted KS with their sons' careers

vegas guey

4/5/24 9:14am

Amen brother

TNT

4/5/24 9:32am

except for the many top players that did. look at all those guys in the NFL

FieroCoug

4/5/24 11:12am

Poor DL play traces back to one source, Tuiaki. That's been addressed. Recruiting is on the upswing especially

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:23am

So it took a HC 8 years to figure that out? That’s a fireable offense. Anything

Idacoug

4/5/24 9:56am

8 years? Math issues much?

ManicBlue

4/5/24 10:06am

Idacoug isn't good at much on CB, except trolling

NYC and Japan

4/5/24 12:41pm

Only took Kalani 8 years to figure that out? 😂

Idacoug

4/5/24 5:42pm

I can recommend some good toys that teach kids how to count. 👍🙂

ManicBlue

4/5/24 6:20pm

You don't remember?

TNT

4/5/24 8:57am

C'mon that's just lazy.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:23am

No. You have a search function. Use it. TNT isn't going to keep typing it all ou

TNT

4/5/24 9:29am

Over 230,000 posts and now you have a problem typing something out? uh huh

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:32am

Why? You wouldn't believe it anyway

TNT

4/5/24 9:33am

Why wouldn't I? Are they lies? I haven't been a Kalani apologist.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:39am

No. You and TNT see things differently. And that's fine

TNT

4/5/24 9:43am

I don't have a problem with that, but I have NO idea how you see things. So ...?

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:45am

Well search for it. TNT = most lazy but you are giving him a run for his money

TNT

4/5/24 9:48am

Seriously? Easier for me to search your 233,000+ posts than to just give me your top 5 issues? smh

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:57am

Just search "kalani coach" or similar on TNT's profile

MarylandFan

4/5/24 11:21am

Thanks, but those are all of the same generic crap. I asked him for specifics. Shouldn't be that hard.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 11:26am

They're specific observations. I'm thinking TNT sniffed this out before me.

MarylandFan

4/5/24 11:32am

Hahahaha that's what you call specific? Calling Kalani a lazy coach? smh Boardname definitely does not fit.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 11:53am

This exhibits the one of the worst styles of discussion on here.

MarylandFan

4/5/24 12:08pm

RE: This exhibits the one of the worst styles of discussion on here.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 12:18pm

You did it again.

MarylandFan

4/5/24 12:41pm

LOL ... smh. Evidently YOU didn't read past his headlines. I read them all. They are very superficial at best.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 2:06pm

Agreed. I don't think we have a common understanding of the word "specific"

MarylandFan

4/5/24 3:18pm

RE: Agreed. I don't think we have a common understanding of the word "specific"

ManicBlue

4/5/24 3:30pm

Of course, and I loved this gem.

MarylandFan

4/5/24 3:47pm

So you don't agree then? What's your plan? Oh right ... you don't have any ideas. Gotcha

ManicBlue

4/5/24 3:55pm

Coug has had some fantastic posts about this in the past

TNT

4/5/24 9:32am

Calling timeouts out of halftime or out of another timeout.

MarylandFan

4/5/24 9:23am

Could say the same thing about Kiffin and Sark. Yet they improved.

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 8:57am

I disagree.

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:57am

This is simple revisionism. It just isn’t true.

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:07am

No it is true

TNT

4/5/24 9:16am

Check MATE

gangbusters

4/5/24 9:20am

Now that's some really deep thinking; great analytical mind.

Jasbo

4/5/24 12:44pm

Oh TNT . SMH.

Polecat

10/29/24 2:14pm

8 years of the same stuff. He’s a great guy, not a great coach. It’s not hard to

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:56am

RE: 8 years of the same stuff. He’s a great guy, not a great coach. It’s not hard to

ManicBlue

4/5/24 8:56am

RE: 8 years of the same stuff. He’s a great guy, not a great coach.

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:57am

Arguing with Idacoug, a troll, is pointless

NYC and Japan

4/5/24 9:14am

I'd love to know if you'd be ok with him if we had double digit win seasons

Iki_Balam

4/5/24 11:29am

So… do you stick with a lovable loser forever just in case he gets it?

Longseason

4/5/24 8:57am

A lot of Byu fans have this attitude.

Idacoug

4/5/24 8:58am

All is well in Zion

TNT

4/5/24 8:59am

He’s no more a loser than Sark at this point in Sark’s career.

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:16am

This take has already been considered and isn’t comparable to Sitake’s situation

Longseason

4/5/24 9:33am

In your mind, perhaps. Not in any reality.

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 11:15am

RE: So… do you stick with a lovable loser forever just in case he gets it?

coventry94

4/5/24 9:32am

oh now you are using Broncoisms "Flywheel" Careful or you'll incur the wrath of the Anti-Broncoites

BYU Grounds

4/5/24 9:38am

I suppose if Sitake had a drinking problem

BlueFever

4/5/24 9:01am

Remember the mess that was the locker room several seasons ago?

TNT

4/5/24 9:02am

Yes, and that was another tell.

BlueFever

4/5/24 9:06am

I'll counter your Sarkisian and Kiffin examples.

JJCoug

4/5/24 9:02am

Kalani appears to have learned little from Whittingham

TNT

4/5/24 9:03am

Or is unwilling to implement it.

shammy

4/5/24 9:08am

Problem is they’ve been trying to implement KWhit’s style but BYU isn’t Utah

palangi

4/5/24 9:24am

You mean recruiting felons kicked off other teams?

ManicBlue

4/5/24 9:49am

Who did Saban learn from? How did he go from Kalani (@ MSU) to Saban the Great?

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:08am

As I admitted, I don't know his story as well as the others.

JJCoug

4/5/24 9:15am

Kalani’s HC philosophy is similar to LaVell’s. Be a players coach. But that

Short_Changed

4/5/24 9:22am

I think I agree with this. Both are examples of how it isn’t the same problems

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:24am

The best case that can be made is that you must move around to get better

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:23am

So many CB'ers assume that we have (or should have) a Top 15 team every year

darkcoug

4/5/24 9:24am

Mediocre coach + HC + high academic standards = mediocre results.

Traveshamockery

4/5/24 9:07am

25% of his seasons are the two worst in 50+ years. He sucks at clock and timeout management, getting his team up for all

byuTX

4/5/24 9:13am

That doesn’t really answer the question. Why no chance of improvement

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:15am

Nobody knows the future but you can infer using the power of sight/logic, not just watch the film and love one another

byuTX

4/5/24 9:26am

Sounds like same attitude that KS used to keep Tuiaki on staff far too long.

bluesloth

4/5/24 9:27am

That's just good comedy

TNT

4/5/24 9:34am

No chance of improvement? What is the threshold of number of years coached

BLT-Coug

4/5/24 9:40am

Are you ignoring the Gary Crowton Years? Not only were '02-'04 worse,

4/5/24 11:09am

Not to mention that he almost literally killed the football program.

ManicBlue

4/5/24 11:13am

Gary didn't, some stupid players, a remorseful girl and some ALUFs did.

BYU Grounds

4/5/24 12:34pm

Falls back on Crowton because he recruited those guys and obviously didn't impress upon them the importance of

ManicBlue

4/5/24 3:00pm

2017 was worse. Our offense last year was worse. 2024 has the potential to be a 3 win season because of KS and co

byuTX

4/5/24 6:30pm

How long should a school hang on to a coach just because there are a few

bluesloth

4/5/24 9:15am

Depends on what its options are and how much it believes in the chances

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:30am

My counter argument: You saw a drive and strong will to win with those other

mudpupper

4/5/24 9:19am

Sark & Lane have moved around a LOT

4/5/24 9:21am

Like I said, that’s probably the best argument there is

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 9:31am

No. It's called passion to improve and be better than you currently are

TNT

4/5/24 9:35am

Since being hired Kalani has made a lot of changes. A lot a lot. You aren't

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 11:44am

kalani is a great face for the program. He has an average to good OC and had a lousy DC. He has supposedly upgraded the

BYU Grounds

4/5/24 9:34am

Kalani doesn't seem to improve unless he's forced to improve.

greatbam

4/5/24 9:46am

TNT is pretty certain Holmoe forced Kalani to address the Tuaiki situation

TNT

4/5/24 9:48am

Has Saban, Kiffin, or Sark EVER gone for it on 4th and 19 from their own 5?

UMWolverine

4/5/24 11:50am

TLDR: Socrates is ok with bad coaching because “he might become good”

Grock

4/5/24 12:28pm

So let me get this straight, you want to stay with a person, any person really

kimdaddy35

4/5/24 12:36pm

I merely asked for evidence of the contrary view. I didn’t say there is no limit

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 2:00pm

Your argument is 100% a strawman argument and that is your response? Good

kimdaddy35

4/5/24 2:07pm

What are you talking about? I didn't make an argument. I asked why people are so

Socrates Johnson

4/5/24 4:02pm

If your best argument for keeping Kalani is he MIGHT get better, then his resume

ldssdl

4/5/24 2:56pm

RE: If your best argument for keeping Kalani is he MIGHT get better, then his resume

ManicBlue

4/5/24 3:02pm

That wasn't his argument at all. He was merely asking a question which nobody can adequately answer.

4/5/24 3:04pm

Not assessing Kalani specifically...but the existence of exceptions doesn't make everything an exception

krindorr

4/5/24 11:01pm

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