Taxation is theft

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May 20, 2023
8:25:52am

supercoco Playmaker

Taxation is theft

or more accurately, extortion.

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supercoco

Bio page: supercoco
Joined: Mar 10, 2003
Last login: Sep 19, 2024
Total posts: 1,211 (29 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

POLL: Teachers are:

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 11:56am

Probably a combo of all of the above depending on the teacher. Unfortunately, in

crack

5/19/23 11:58am

It’s amazing how to well the unions have pulled off the lie that there’s no way to measure teachers’ effectiveness

WP17

5/19/23 12:09pm

As a teacher, I'm curious how a non-teacher thinks a teacher's effectiveness

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:10pm

I don't know if you are asking me or not, but I would say it could work in a

crack

5/19/23 12:12pm

You’d need a new crop of principals then

Tsisquan

5/19/23 1:23pm

Agreed, principal at our local school is clueless w/ management/people leading

5/19/23 1:41pm

I’m not saying I have it figured out, but it’s absurd to think it can’t be done.

WP17

5/19/23 12:13pm

I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I'm honestly curious what non-teacher's think.

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:16pm

Some combo of boss, parent, peer evals; test scores; student behavior issues.

WP17

5/19/23 12:19pm

Based on some of the other comments you have made on this thread, I think you

crack

5/19/23 12:22pm

Test scores of course!

Sparkling Delirium

5/19/23 12:14pm

Test scores should be included in the measurement though. I'm not saying it

BYUMizzou

5/19/23 12:20pm

As a teacher, I'm 199% on board with getting rid of tenure. Get rid of tenure

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:28pm

The same way that every other job is measured - by the outcome

Skeptical Optimist

5/19/23 12:21pm

The problem with "outcome" in teaching is the teacher is not the only variable when it comes to student outcome.

Spiff

5/19/23 12:25pm

I don't see how that is different than any other job. I rely on other people

Skeptical Optimist

5/19/23 12:27pm

Comparison to other teachers is possible. This isn’t hard- every other job has similar problems and pays market wages

WP17

5/19/23 12:29pm

Uh-huh. LOTS of companies have the same behavioral issues we currently see in schools.

Spiff

5/19/23 12:32pm

But you’re not comparing teachers against other companies, so that’s irrelevant. You’re comparing teachers to teachers

WP17

5/19/23 12:42pm

With parents who hold you accountable for everything under the sun that goes wrong while taking no

Soupie

5/19/23 1:03pm

Some combination of end-of-year student feedback ratings, standardized test

OnEMoReTrY

5/19/23 1:48pm

You're right, but the last thing I want tied to my performance is my students'

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 1:57pm

You said it yourself, students missing class, sleeping in class, not paying

OnEMoReTrY

5/19/23 2:02pm

My wife is a substitute teacher and makes less than kids working at Arby's.

Chasicle

5/19/23 11:59am

Substitutes are crazy underpaid. .

byuluvr

5/19/23 12:04pm

Sub-pay absolutely sucks.

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:11pm

Still, it's my dream job. When I get to about 65, that's what I hope to do

Belboz

5/19/23 12:19pm

My wife has been a full-time sub this year and makes roughly $14.41 / hr after

greatbam

5/19/23 12:12pm

Yep. Subs make about $100-120/day on average. But you have to admit it is

Mikey

5/19/23 12:14pm

Working at Arby's must really suck then.

crack

5/19/23 12:16pm

If you've ever visited Hell or strolled the West Concourse at RES during a Ute

Mikey

5/19/23 12:18pm

I have lived in AZ almost my entire life. Hell doesn't scare me at all.

crack

5/19/23 12:19pm

Subs in my district make between $20-21/hour. That's still a couple of bucks an hour above the fast food joints.

scall

5/19/23 12:18pm

What district is that?

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:36pm

So why isn't she working at Arby's instead?

Blue Print

5/19/23 12:22pm

She works when she wants to. She doesn't need to work (my job is sufficient) but she likes to make some on the side.

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:36pm

That's fair.

Blue Print

5/19/23 1:40pm

<< Deleted >>

JimmyZ

5/19/23 12:27pm

My teenager loved working at Arbys. Less greasy than Freddys.

scall

5/19/23 12:29pm

Yeah, I don't want her smelling like roast beef everyday. She works when she wants. We don't need the extra cash, but

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:38pm

<< Deleted >>

JimmyZ

5/19/23 2:04pm

The state just allocated a good raise for teachers. My wife gets paid as a

Ycrazy

5/19/23 12:00pm

What state are you in?

BlooCoog

5/19/23 12:02pm

Utah

Ycrazy

5/19/23 12:04pm

Believe that was for one year with the hope to become permanent.

Soupie

5/19/23 12:09pm

It's actually permanent. And, the Utah Legislature has now tied the state's

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:12pm

And used as a bribe to allow Legislators to get reimbursed for private & charter

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:11pm

<< Deleted >>

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:12pm

Except they didn't give the districts enough money to pay for it. Don't ask.

Adwight

5/19/23 12:16pm

Depends on the teacher and the school district.

scall

5/19/23 12:03pm

Any teachers’ wage needs to be multiplied by ~1.2 to reflect that they work less than the average job

WP17

5/19/23 12:10pm

You must not know any teachers if you think they work less than average jobs.

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:13pm

You must not know how hard the rest of us work then

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 12:15pm

Ah huh

Deleted

5/19/23 12:21pm

You wouldn’t understand this

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 12:53pm

do share!

Deleted

5/19/23 1:01pm

Well it’s about free markets not your cup of socialist tea

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 1:03pm

Many do. I don’t really have a reverence for teachers. Some are good, some are average, some are terrible.

WP17

5/19/23 12:16pm

9.5 months vs 12 months. I think 1.2x is a good multiplier.

AggieWeekendCougar

5/19/23 12:37pm

Lol, you get an entire summer off. Yes I know plenty of teachers.

5/19/23 1:02pm

Both my parents and my wife taught. None of them got "the summer off".

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 2:28pm

WRONG. I'll put up the hours I put in during the school year against what anyone

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:13pm

Please do. Most teachers I know work normal during the year and not much in the summer

WP17

5/19/23 12:15pm

I think he means how hard he works during school. It is a energy intensive all

Adwight

5/19/23 12:19pm

You’re likely one of the good ones. I wish we could pay you to reflect that. Plenty of teachers aren’t as good as you

WP17

5/19/23 12:20pm

my primary class wears me out after one hour once a week. I could never teach.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:44pm

OK, put it up against these people:

viper

5/19/23 12:27pm

I doubt it. Calling all teachers out for the false narrative that you work more

5/19/23 1:01pm

Are you referring to the summer break?

Hawk in the 303

5/19/23 12:32pm

Summer break is not covered in teacher pay. Teachers are paid for the school year. It may be disbursed over the summer

Spiff

5/19/23 12:34pm

one issue with their pay is that they're paid what they'll accept to be paid

Belboz

5/19/23 12:22pm

I can't speak for all districts, but my wife teaches in Nebo and the starting pay has definitely gotten better through

RootieBoy

5/19/23 12:22pm

Here is the steps and lanes pay scale for teachers in Nebo School District. Steps are the amount of years you have

RootieBoy

5/19/23 12:27pm

How is this guy making over 100K?

JuicyJam

5/19/23 1:03pm

30 years in with a Master degree can get you there. Throw in a few stipends for extra responsibilities at your school,

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:21pm

Just saw he is 10 years in. I honestly have no idea. My wife is 13 years in and makes $83k.

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:23pm

I am that guy. Base salary is 86 + other stipends (coaching, degree status, etc

Adwight

5/19/23 1:27pm

What district? What lane for education?

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:29pm

Alpine Master's + 37

Adwight

5/19/23 1:59pm

Oh I see. Looks like he is a coach and does other stipend work. If you can get enough of those, it can add up fast.

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:28pm

My brother in law made over $100k and has about 10 years as well. He is in the

Mikey

5/19/23 1:35pm

That's about $15K - $20K higher than where I'm at for a step 1 Bachelor's degree

BYUMizzou

5/19/23 12:41pm

Twenty years ago I signed on for my 1st year of teaching and coaching

6mancoach

5/19/23 12:25pm

starting salaries for teacher too low for sure. Coaching is for love.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:41pm

Option 5 - paid the market rate for a publicly funded job in their industry

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 12:34pm

starting salaries at least in Idaho are too low but even out over time.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:39pm

Its a matter of choice - not fairness.

5/19/23 12:43pm

Teachers are a necessary job. We should pay them a fair amount.

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:48pm

A lot of jobs are necessary. And some of those jobs are publicly funded and

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 12:59pm

true but how much burden can tax payers shoulder?

qwerew

5/19/23 12:59pm

Utah needs to stop being so stingy. Lowest funded system in the USA but Utah

Adwight

5/19/23 1:30pm

California refutes your assumption. They pay significantly more and their

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 2:42pm

In California, where I live, teachers earn a salary much higher than the avg job

5/19/23 1:00pm

And one thing is for sure in California, educational results do NOT reflect the

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 1:01pm

if you want better teachers, you should want to pay more. it is that simple.if you want worse teachers, then just say so

Deleted

5/19/23 1:01pm

I am supportive of paying teachers more, but "fairness" is the wrong argument

5/19/23 1:06pm

Teachers are paid well now, but many are still leaving because of how bad it has

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 1:13pm

I would be so happy if we could do ANY of those things. We're handcuffed.

Adwight

5/19/23 1:26pm

and I think as a society we've become overly scared of litigation.

qwerew

5/19/23 1:58pm

min should be 80-100k

Deleted

5/19/23 1:21pm

I mean...you get what you pay for. Just don't act surprised when all your young doctors and engineers weren't born or

BlooGeek

5/19/23 1:22pm

I think there are plenty of good teachers...just stupid policies.

Lifer

5/19/23 2:06pm

It's hard to make the case you're underpaid

supercoco

5/19/23 1:45pm

I take it you don't like our tax system?

qwerew

5/19/23 1:56pm

Taxation is theft

supercoco

5/20/23 8:25am

tax system and how it's spent can be better but It's the only way to have

qwerew

5/21/23 8:57pm

I'm for the services you mention, but they don't need to be provided by a

supercoco

5/22/23 8:05am

Is that you Ammon B?

BlooGeek

5/19/23 2:54pm

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