Some combination of end-of-year student feedback ratings, standardized test

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May 19, 2023
1:48:04pm

OnEMoReTrY Contributor

Some combination of end-of-year student feedback ratings, standardized test

scores, early semester test score vs. end of semester test score demonstrating how well you taught the material you were responsible for teaching, market demand, etc.

The idea that teacher performance can't be measured and is irrelevant to your pay is something very unique to the teaching profession...

This message has been modified

Originally posted on May 19, 2023 at 1:48:04pm

Message modified by OnEMoReTrY on May 19, 2023 at 1:49:03pm

Message modified by OnEMoReTrY on May 19, 2023 at 1:49:21pm

Message modified by OnEMoReTrY on May 19, 2023 at 1:49:34pm

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OnEMoReTrY

Bio page: OnEMoReTrY
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
Last login: Sep 19, 2024
Total posts: 995 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

POLL: Teachers are:

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 11:56am

Probably a combo of all of the above depending on the teacher. Unfortunately, in

crack

5/19/23 11:58am

It’s amazing how to well the unions have pulled off the lie that there’s no way to measure teachers’ effectiveness

WP17

5/19/23 12:09pm

As a teacher, I'm curious how a non-teacher thinks a teacher's effectiveness

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:10pm

I don't know if you are asking me or not, but I would say it could work in a

crack

5/19/23 12:12pm

You’d need a new crop of principals then

Tsisquan

5/19/23 1:23pm

Agreed, principal at our local school is clueless w/ management/people leading

5/19/23 1:41pm

I’m not saying I have it figured out, but it’s absurd to think it can’t be done.

WP17

5/19/23 12:13pm

I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I'm honestly curious what non-teacher's think.

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:16pm

Some combo of boss, parent, peer evals; test scores; student behavior issues.

WP17

5/19/23 12:19pm

Based on some of the other comments you have made on this thread, I think you

crack

5/19/23 12:22pm

Test scores of course!

Sparkling Delirium

5/19/23 12:14pm

Test scores should be included in the measurement though. I'm not saying it

BYUMizzou

5/19/23 12:20pm

As a teacher, I'm 199% on board with getting rid of tenure. Get rid of tenure

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:28pm

The same way that every other job is measured - by the outcome

Skeptical Optimist

5/19/23 12:21pm

The problem with "outcome" in teaching is the teacher is not the only variable when it comes to student outcome.

Spiff

5/19/23 12:25pm

I don't see how that is different than any other job. I rely on other people

Skeptical Optimist

5/19/23 12:27pm

Comparison to other teachers is possible. This isn’t hard- every other job has similar problems and pays market wages

WP17

5/19/23 12:29pm

Uh-huh. LOTS of companies have the same behavioral issues we currently see in schools.

Spiff

5/19/23 12:32pm

But you’re not comparing teachers against other companies, so that’s irrelevant. You’re comparing teachers to teachers

WP17

5/19/23 12:42pm

With parents who hold you accountable for everything under the sun that goes wrong while taking no

Soupie

5/19/23 1:03pm

Some combination of end-of-year student feedback ratings, standardized test

OnEMoReTrY

5/19/23 1:48pm

You're right, but the last thing I want tied to my performance is my students'

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 1:57pm

You said it yourself, students missing class, sleeping in class, not paying

OnEMoReTrY

5/19/23 2:02pm

My wife is a substitute teacher and makes less than kids working at Arby's.

Chasicle

5/19/23 11:59am

Substitutes are crazy underpaid. .

byuluvr

5/19/23 12:04pm

Sub-pay absolutely sucks.

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:11pm

Still, it's my dream job. When I get to about 65, that's what I hope to do

Belboz

5/19/23 12:19pm

My wife has been a full-time sub this year and makes roughly $14.41 / hr after

greatbam

5/19/23 12:12pm

Yep. Subs make about $100-120/day on average. But you have to admit it is

Mikey

5/19/23 12:14pm

Working at Arby's must really suck then.

crack

5/19/23 12:16pm

If you've ever visited Hell or strolled the West Concourse at RES during a Ute

Mikey

5/19/23 12:18pm

I have lived in AZ almost my entire life. Hell doesn't scare me at all.

crack

5/19/23 12:19pm

Subs in my district make between $20-21/hour. That's still a couple of bucks an hour above the fast food joints.

scall

5/19/23 12:18pm

What district is that?

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:36pm

So why isn't she working at Arby's instead?

Blue Print

5/19/23 12:22pm

She works when she wants to. She doesn't need to work (my job is sufficient) but she likes to make some on the side.

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:36pm

That's fair.

Blue Print

5/19/23 1:40pm

<< Deleted >>

JimmyZ

5/19/23 12:27pm

My teenager loved working at Arbys. Less greasy than Freddys.

scall

5/19/23 12:29pm

Yeah, I don't want her smelling like roast beef everyday. She works when she wants. We don't need the extra cash, but

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:38pm

<< Deleted >>

JimmyZ

5/19/23 2:04pm

The state just allocated a good raise for teachers. My wife gets paid as a

Ycrazy

5/19/23 12:00pm

What state are you in?

BlooCoog

5/19/23 12:02pm

Utah

Ycrazy

5/19/23 12:04pm

Believe that was for one year with the hope to become permanent.

Soupie

5/19/23 12:09pm

It's actually permanent. And, the Utah Legislature has now tied the state's

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:12pm

And used as a bribe to allow Legislators to get reimbursed for private & charter

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:11pm

<< Deleted >>

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:12pm

Except they didn't give the districts enough money to pay for it. Don't ask.

Adwight

5/19/23 12:16pm

Depends on the teacher and the school district.

scall

5/19/23 12:03pm

Any teachers’ wage needs to be multiplied by ~1.2 to reflect that they work less than the average job

WP17

5/19/23 12:10pm

You must not know any teachers if you think they work less than average jobs.

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 12:13pm

You must not know how hard the rest of us work then

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 12:15pm

Ah huh

Deleted

5/19/23 12:21pm

You wouldn’t understand this

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 12:53pm

do share!

Deleted

5/19/23 1:01pm

Well it’s about free markets not your cup of socialist tea

SouthernBlueBlood

5/19/23 1:03pm

Many do. I don’t really have a reverence for teachers. Some are good, some are average, some are terrible.

WP17

5/19/23 12:16pm

9.5 months vs 12 months. I think 1.2x is a good multiplier.

AggieWeekendCougar

5/19/23 12:37pm

Lol, you get an entire summer off. Yes I know plenty of teachers.

5/19/23 1:02pm

Both my parents and my wife taught. None of them got "the summer off".

ochobeeguy

5/19/23 2:28pm

WRONG. I'll put up the hours I put in during the school year against what anyone

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 12:13pm

Please do. Most teachers I know work normal during the year and not much in the summer

WP17

5/19/23 12:15pm

I think he means how hard he works during school. It is a energy intensive all

Adwight

5/19/23 12:19pm

You’re likely one of the good ones. I wish we could pay you to reflect that. Plenty of teachers aren’t as good as you

WP17

5/19/23 12:20pm

my primary class wears me out after one hour once a week. I could never teach.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:44pm

OK, put it up against these people:

viper

5/19/23 12:27pm

I doubt it. Calling all teachers out for the false narrative that you work more

5/19/23 1:01pm

Are you referring to the summer break?

Hawk in the 303

5/19/23 12:32pm

Summer break is not covered in teacher pay. Teachers are paid for the school year. It may be disbursed over the summer

Spiff

5/19/23 12:34pm

one issue with their pay is that they're paid what they'll accept to be paid

Belboz

5/19/23 12:22pm

I can't speak for all districts, but my wife teaches in Nebo and the starting pay has definitely gotten better through

RootieBoy

5/19/23 12:22pm

Here is the steps and lanes pay scale for teachers in Nebo School District. Steps are the amount of years you have

RootieBoy

5/19/23 12:27pm

How is this guy making over 100K?

JuicyJam

5/19/23 1:03pm

30 years in with a Master degree can get you there. Throw in a few stipends for extra responsibilities at your school,

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:21pm

Just saw he is 10 years in. I honestly have no idea. My wife is 13 years in and makes $83k.

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:23pm

I am that guy. Base salary is 86 + other stipends (coaching, degree status, etc

Adwight

5/19/23 1:27pm

What district? What lane for education?

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:29pm

Alpine Master's + 37

Adwight

5/19/23 1:59pm

Oh I see. Looks like he is a coach and does other stipend work. If you can get enough of those, it can add up fast.

RootieBoy

5/19/23 1:28pm

My brother in law made over $100k and has about 10 years as well. He is in the

Mikey

5/19/23 1:35pm

That's about $15K - $20K higher than where I'm at for a step 1 Bachelor's degree

BYUMizzou

5/19/23 12:41pm

Twenty years ago I signed on for my 1st year of teaching and coaching

6mancoach

5/19/23 12:25pm

starting salaries for teacher too low for sure. Coaching is for love.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:41pm

Option 5 - paid the market rate for a publicly funded job in their industry

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 12:34pm

starting salaries at least in Idaho are too low but even out over time.

qwerew

5/19/23 12:39pm

Its a matter of choice - not fairness.

5/19/23 12:43pm

Teachers are a necessary job. We should pay them a fair amount.

Chasicle

5/19/23 12:48pm

A lot of jobs are necessary. And some of those jobs are publicly funded and

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 12:59pm

true but how much burden can tax payers shoulder?

qwerew

5/19/23 12:59pm

Utah needs to stop being so stingy. Lowest funded system in the USA but Utah

Adwight

5/19/23 1:30pm

California refutes your assumption. They pay significantly more and their

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 2:42pm

In California, where I live, teachers earn a salary much higher than the avg job

5/19/23 1:00pm

And one thing is for sure in California, educational results do NOT reflect the

UNLVcougar

5/19/23 1:01pm

if you want better teachers, you should want to pay more. it is that simple.if you want worse teachers, then just say so

Deleted

5/19/23 1:01pm

I am supportive of paying teachers more, but "fairness" is the wrong argument

5/19/23 1:06pm

Teachers are paid well now, but many are still leaving because of how bad it has

TrueBlue67

5/19/23 1:13pm

I would be so happy if we could do ANY of those things. We're handcuffed.

Adwight

5/19/23 1:26pm

and I think as a society we've become overly scared of litigation.

qwerew

5/19/23 1:58pm

min should be 80-100k

Deleted

5/19/23 1:21pm

I mean...you get what you pay for. Just don't act surprised when all your young doctors and engineers weren't born or

BlooGeek

5/19/23 1:22pm

I think there are plenty of good teachers...just stupid policies.

Lifer

5/19/23 2:06pm

It's hard to make the case you're underpaid

supercoco

5/19/23 1:45pm

I take it you don't like our tax system?

qwerew

5/19/23 1:56pm

Taxation is theft

supercoco

5/20/23 8:25am

tax system and how it's spent can be better but It's the only way to have

qwerew

5/21/23 8:57pm

I'm for the services you mention, but they don't need to be provided by a

supercoco

5/22/23 8:05am

Is that you Ammon B?

BlooGeek

5/19/23 2:54pm

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