The point of my OP is that he's not accurate (and I did state that), so not sure what you are saying? I included it

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Jan 2, 2025
2:26:58pm

Haysom Till Truly Addicted User

The point of my OP is that he's not accurate (and I did state that), so not sure what you are saying? I included it

specifically because it was intercepted and was an inaccurate throw straight to the other team.

Seems fairly logical given the point that I'm making is that he's not what I would term an "accurate" passer and I don't know if he can take us to the next level.

I never once argued that he shouldn't have taken a shot on a free play. Red herring. CB loves those.

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Haysom Till

Previous username: OMIllionaire
Bio page: Haysom Till
Joined: Mar 28, 2016
Last login: Jan 6, 2025
Total posts: 7,857 (62 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Jake is such a like-able guy and we were 11-2, so hard to critique... but we must. 4 INTs in that game. Stay with me....

Haysom Till Truly Addicted User

Jan 2, 1:39pm

Getting mad about an offsides INT is hilarious lol

arcawley

Jan 2, 1:42pm

I'm not mad. I'm being objective.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:43pm

For that particular play, you're being objectively absurd

Indy Coug

Jan 2, 1:43pm

I don't think it's absurd to point out that on our free play he threw a wobbly duck straight into lil Sanders arms. How

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:54pm

Well, you at least know you have everyone else's support but mine on this point

Indy Coug

Jan 2, 1:57pm

touche

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:15pm

He knew it was a free play and just threw it up there for grabs on purpose. Wr

viper

Jan 2, 6:57pm

I think he makes a valid point.

Da Cougars

Jan 2, 2:53pm

He doesn’t throw that without the offsides

maxpowers

Jan 2, 1:44pm

of course. but his throw was so horrible. wasn't catchable by any of our guys and was catchable by CU which was my point

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:45pm

it wasn't catchable by a BYU WR as the WR was interfered with, despite the lack of a DPI flag

Littlerich

Jan 2, 1:51pm

Oh man, this is pointless.

Belboz

Jan 2, 2:21pm

We should've been mad if he didn't taken that shot downfield

thewaterboy

Jan 2, 1:46pm

of course. red herring argument. It's that he is inaccurate, not that he took a downfield shot on a free play.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:56pm

Watch that play again. I thought it should have been pass interference against

King of Y

Jan 2, 2:19pm

I thought so too and did rewatch it a number of times. Def could have been PI.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:27pm

So then why call it a terrible throw? If not pulled down by DB, likely a catch

King of Y

Jan 2, 2:34pm

It was badly under thrown, that’s why it wasn’t PI

CameronG

Jan 2, 7:28pm

That's not what I saw at all. You can't say with any certainty whatsoever that it was "likely a catch". Speculative at

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:02pm

No - "objective" is accepting that on a free play, the QB is supposed to...

Eddie

Jan 2, 5:03pm

Objective is 57% completion percentage, lots of INTs, and lots of red zone turnovers. And throwing it straight to the

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:20pm

Not like it was the only one of the game - pt he’s making

truecougster

Jan 2, 7:40pm

I am taking the positive road, TNT note please, and believe he will improve.

Archaea

Jan 2, 1:42pm

I hope so as well. We didn't feel the pain of the INTs this year as much cuz our team was better overall, but he ended

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:44pm

It seems he wanted to make a hero throw and he needs to let the game come to him

Archaea

Jan 2, 1:52pm

100%. I guess that is a gunslinger mentality.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:56pm

He doesn't have Josh Allen's arm strength or accuracy, but he thinks he does.

Archaea

Jan 2, 2:04pm

Agreed. He's Brett Favre minus the fact that he ain't Brett Favre.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:09pm

You bring up Josh Allen...

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 2:17pm

Josh Allen completely revamped his arm motion upon becoming a pro.

Archaea

Jan 2, 2:20pm

Ok...

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 3:43pm

But what about those who think improvement is impossible?

Plantagenet

Jan 2, 5:44pm

Sorry, you don’t get to count an INT on an offsides call when he was taking a shot that was not the play call.

mulletino

Jan 2, 1:42pm

Officially he had 2. We can bury our head in the sand and pretend he is an accurate passer.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:43pm

Or we can make stuff up to try and support our point.

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 1:44pm

Nothing I stated is made up. Again, objectivity can smack us in the face at times. I think we ended the season on such

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:54pm

He didn’t throw 4 INTs. That is made up.

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 1:59pm

What happend on the free play? What happened on the 2-point conversion? Tell me in your own words.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:02pm

The free play didn’t count and was an offsides penalty. The 2 point conversion

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 2:16pm

This reads like a CNN headline... "Plane crashes into building". "Truck crashes into people". "Trump falls while

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:07pm

Do you think other QBs don't do similar things? how much football do you watch?

Belboz

Jan 2, 2:22pm

CB loves the ad hominem fallacy. It's so lazy to attack the messenger instead of address the message.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:29pm

Yes, the only reason it wasn't close was Chase was trying to sell a PI call. Definitely not on Retzlaff

kimdaddy35

Jan 2, 1:46pm

<< Deleted >>

chilawcoug

Jan 2, 2:12pm

I am not officially counting it, merely demonstrating that even on free plays with no pressure he is sadly inaccurate.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:22pm

On a free play I'd much rather the QB throw a deep interception than throw a

Jan 2, 1:44pm

Me too.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:46pm

Nobody is mad he took a deep shot. But it seemed way off.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 1:46pm

correct. He made the right decision to gamble when an INT doesn't hurt us. I'm 100% on board with that. It was just very

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:48pm

Are those the only two options?

thirdgencoug

Jan 2, 8:21pm

Something was up with that pass on the free play.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 1:44pm

My biggest thing with Jake is to figure out 2 things. How/when to throw the end zone fade, and more selectivity when

Bob Vance

Jan 2, 1:46pm

My biggest thing for him in the off-season would be to learn some touch. I've never seen a college QB

kimdaddy35

Jan 2, 1:47pm

same speed and velocity on every throw. I think part of it is his throwing mechanics.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:49pm

Obviously you don't remember Jake Heaps. He rifled the ball on a 5 yard out

SUAVO

Jan 2, 1:58pm

It’s well documented that I am no Jake apologist but the INT on the offsides is

Jan 2, 1:46pm

it was the correct call but doesn't negate that it was a wildly inaccurate throw, highlighting my point. He's not

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:50pm

Yes it does negate it. He’s improvising and completely off-script. Arguing style

xgbs

Jan 2, 3:18pm

You keep ignoring that there was PI on the play. If there no PI, it is accurate

NYC and Japan

Jan 2, 3:18pm

Ehhh, I will give you the INT is a problem, but for mostly two reasons...

ChinaFan

Jan 2, 1:49pm

I've resigned myself to see Jake as an Academy QB. A few options, limited passing, keep the offense moving.

GfB

Jan 2, 1:52pm

While I agree with a lot of that, Jake also saved them on many drives and plays.

Blew

Jan 2, 1:53pm

agreed on all your points. I did notice the last half of the season though, he stopped scrambling as much. Seemed like

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:58pm

Jake is a good QB. We are hoping he can take the next step to be a very good QB

mudpupper

Jan 2, 1:53pm

What is your definition of good?

Brisket

Jan 2, 8:40pm

I think the consensus assessment on Jake is that he isn’t an accurate passer. I agree with others that a deep ball shot

RootieBoy

Jan 2, 1:57pm

The reason I brought it up was because it was an INT straight into Sander's arms.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:00pm

BOOO... Who wants to be a QB for a fan base like ours? Go 11-2 and your fans aren't on your side? What? "Come to BYU

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 2:00pm

It’s a dumb way to show your support. We don’t even need a perfect offense if our defense keeps playing elite.

mulletino

Jan 2, 2:13pm

Is "Very Good" objectively true? He's the 62nd ranked QB by QBR. If he were top 25 it would give

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:22pm

Who are you suggesting we get to be QB1? What's your goal here? There is no one to replace Jake. Literally no one. So

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 2:59pm

Big12 Head Coaches (NOT randos like you) voted Jake 3rd best QB in Big12.

NYC and Japan

Jan 2, 3:22pm

If you’re interested, I didn’t say he was “very good” this year. I could have phrased it better.

mulletino

Jan 2, 3:42pm

What is your objective in writing this besides to whine?

MarylandFan

Jan 2, 7:44pm

I think your expectations are unreasonable. This isn't Madden.

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 2:06pm

Well yeah. He's ranked 62nd in QBR. My mind instantly goes to "what if he were top 25 in QBR". Rare territory for BYU to

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:14pm

<< Deleted >>

chilawcoug

Jan 2, 2:10pm

Conflating a free-play INT muddles your whole point about INTs. INTs are mostly about poor decision making and throwing

mvtoro

Jan 2, 2:12pm

He did include it several times including 10 minutes before your post.

Ripliancum

Jan 2, 2:16pm

The point of my OP is that he's not accurate (and I did state that), so not sure what you are saying? I included it

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:26pm

The descriptions you gave of each actual INT were: “I’ll-advised”, “Not open at all”, “should have been thrown into the

mvtoro

Jan 2, 3:39pm

I would like to be CBer number 437 to completely ignore your point

YOHONOMOTO

Jan 2, 2:28pm

no thank you

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:30pm

I’ll be number 438

stoils

Jan 2, 3:10pm

Who do you think we should get? Who is going to come to Provo and move Jake to QB2?

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:03pm

Jake is probably our guy at this point so it's a moot point. But he has issues

YOHONOMOTO

Jan 2, 4:07pm

I didn't say I want Jake benched or that there is an obvious person to replace him. So many red herrings. I said he is

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:52pm

I hope he gets better but would love to see BYU go after a high profile QB in

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 2:28pm

Not happening.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 2:53pm

If the right young talent becomes available BYU should nab him for the future

puntersarepeople

Jan 2, 2:56pm

Probably not happening but BYU should try to improve at QB.

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:10pm

How? Who? You guys keeping pointing out what you think is a problem, but you provide no solutions. How does this help?

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:12pm

Offer no help? Well if BYU calls me I'd happily give them advice.

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:18pm

We should stop throwing shade at our coaches and players after an 11-2 season... especially when offering no solutions

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:28pm

Well I'll be sure to help the BYU coaches when they call me. In the meantime

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:42pm

ouch... too soon man... too soon...

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:44pm

Good analysis. And correct tho inconvenient to acknowledge.

Lombardi

Jan 2, 2:29pm

The shuffle pass hit the TE right in the hands, chest high. Should have been

basman

Jan 2, 2:34pm

You are right - any single play it's hard to get upset about. When I look at his season objectively, he's not an

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:40pm

Jake will get better. Leavitt had 16TDs and 1 INT in his last six games

MyTwoCents

Jan 2, 3:10pm

Now do Jake...

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:38pm

I think you’re being too critical

Blue Heart

Jan 2, 3:37pm

Echoing HarlemCoug's question above - what are you hoping happens here?

CatManBlue

Jan 2, 3:46pm

Remarking on Jake's lack of consistency and accuracy doesn't always make you a hater.

BYUgoslav

Jan 2, 4:17pm

Jake needs our support... not our criticism.

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 4:35pm

For sure - I think it probably rarely makes someone a hater. I don't believe...

CatManBlue

Jan 2, 5:17pm

LOL you have been biased against Retzlaff since last season.

kaladin58

Jan 2, 6:01pm

It’s silly to focus solely on mistakes and ignore all the great plays Jake made.

Jan 2, 6:41pm

This (at the bottom) is the best point of them all. ALL QB's have errant throws

jaba166

Jan 2, 7:57pm

All of the critiques above need to stop worrying! Jake doesn't give a hoot what

jaba166

Jan 2, 8:07pm

Ouch, you were okay until you compared him with Bosco. Bosco’s numbers are far and away better than Jake’s.

Brisket

Jan 2, 8:44pm

Comparing the mistakes, not the overall numbers. And that was a different team,

jaba166

Jan 2, 10:27pm

I think his wins and accomplishments are well documented and celebrated. Great season overall.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 9:40pm

Then talk about that, then.

jaba166

Jan 2, 10:17pm

Everyone talks about the good. We get "The Cut", Blaine Fowler's blue-goggled take, Jarom and Spence's blue-goggled take

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:35pm

My question...

coventry94

Jan 2, 9:51pm

Nebraska proves that crazy fan expectations can ruin things. Bo Pelini was 67-27 at Nebraska. His worst year was

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 10:16pm

That's a fair take. And it's yours. Mine is different, and it's also fair.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:46pm

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