You bring up Josh Allen...

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Jan 2, 2025
2:17:54pm

SoCalCoug Truly Addicted User

You bring up Josh Allen...

In the bowl game loss to BYU his junior year, Josh Allen was 17/32 for 207 yards (6.7 ypa), 2 TD, 2 Int, 55.3 QBR. He ran for 27 yards.

Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen as a college junior, either.

Retzlaff against Colorado: 12/21 for 151 yards (7.2 ypa), 0 TD, 2 Int, 30.8 QBR. He added 29 yards rushing and BYU blew out Colorado.

A little worse than Allen, but not far off. Better in a couple of categories.

I think the biggest mistake is viewing Retzlaff as a completed product, rather that a work in progress with some really good arm talent and a heart as big as ... dare I say ... Texas.

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SoCalCoug

Bio page: SoCalCoug
Joined: May 3, 2001
Last login: Jan 4, 2025
Total posts: 53,554 (5,366 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Jake is such a like-able guy and we were 11-2, so hard to critique... but we must. 4 INTs in that game. Stay with me....

Haysom Till Truly Addicted User

Jan 2, 1:39pm

Getting mad about an offsides INT is hilarious lol

arcawley

Jan 2, 1:42pm

I'm not mad. I'm being objective.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:43pm

For that particular play, you're being objectively absurd

Indy Coug

Jan 2, 1:43pm

I don't think it's absurd to point out that on our free play he threw a wobbly duck straight into lil Sanders arms. How

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:54pm

Well, you at least know you have everyone else's support but mine on this point

Indy Coug

Jan 2, 1:57pm

touche

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:15pm

He knew it was a free play and just threw it up there for grabs on purpose. Wr

viper

Jan 2, 6:57pm

I think he makes a valid point.

Da Cougars

Jan 2, 2:53pm

He doesn’t throw that without the offsides

maxpowers

Jan 2, 1:44pm

of course. but his throw was so horrible. wasn't catchable by any of our guys and was catchable by CU which was my point

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:45pm

it wasn't catchable by a BYU WR as the WR was interfered with, despite the lack of a DPI flag

Littlerich

Jan 2, 1:51pm

Oh man, this is pointless.

Belboz

Jan 2, 2:21pm

We should've been mad if he didn't taken that shot downfield

thewaterboy

Jan 2, 1:46pm

of course. red herring argument. It's that he is inaccurate, not that he took a downfield shot on a free play.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:56pm

Watch that play again. I thought it should have been pass interference against

King of Y

Jan 2, 2:19pm

I thought so too and did rewatch it a number of times. Def could have been PI.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:27pm

So then why call it a terrible throw? If not pulled down by DB, likely a catch

King of Y

Jan 2, 2:34pm

It was badly under thrown, that’s why it wasn’t PI

CameronG

Jan 2, 7:28pm

That's not what I saw at all. You can't say with any certainty whatsoever that it was "likely a catch". Speculative at

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:02pm

No - "objective" is accepting that on a free play, the QB is supposed to...

Eddie

Jan 2, 5:03pm

Objective is 57% completion percentage, lots of INTs, and lots of red zone turnovers. And throwing it straight to the

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:20pm

Not like it was the only one of the game - pt he’s making

truecougster

Jan 2, 7:40pm

I am taking the positive road, TNT note please, and believe he will improve.

Archaea

Jan 2, 1:42pm

I hope so as well. We didn't feel the pain of the INTs this year as much cuz our team was better overall, but he ended

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:44pm

It seems he wanted to make a hero throw and he needs to let the game come to him

Archaea

Jan 2, 1:52pm

100%. I guess that is a gunslinger mentality.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:56pm

He doesn't have Josh Allen's arm strength or accuracy, but he thinks he does.

Archaea

Jan 2, 2:04pm

Agreed. He's Brett Favre minus the fact that he ain't Brett Favre.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:09pm

You bring up Josh Allen...

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 2:17pm

Josh Allen completely revamped his arm motion upon becoming a pro.

Archaea

Jan 2, 2:20pm

Ok...

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 3:43pm

But what about those who think improvement is impossible?

Plantagenet

Jan 2, 5:44pm

Sorry, you don’t get to count an INT on an offsides call when he was taking a shot that was not the play call.

mulletino

Jan 2, 1:42pm

Officially he had 2. We can bury our head in the sand and pretend he is an accurate passer.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:43pm

Or we can make stuff up to try and support our point.

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 1:44pm

Nothing I stated is made up. Again, objectivity can smack us in the face at times. I think we ended the season on such

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:54pm

He didn’t throw 4 INTs. That is made up.

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 1:59pm

What happend on the free play? What happened on the 2-point conversion? Tell me in your own words.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:02pm

The free play didn’t count and was an offsides penalty. The 2 point conversion

Ozymandias

Jan 2, 2:16pm

This reads like a CNN headline... "Plane crashes into building". "Truck crashes into people". "Trump falls while

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:07pm

Do you think other QBs don't do similar things? how much football do you watch?

Belboz

Jan 2, 2:22pm

CB loves the ad hominem fallacy. It's so lazy to attack the messenger instead of address the message.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:29pm

Yes, the only reason it wasn't close was Chase was trying to sell a PI call. Definitely not on Retzlaff

kimdaddy35

Jan 2, 1:46pm

<< Deleted >>

chilawcoug

Jan 2, 2:12pm

I am not officially counting it, merely demonstrating that even on free plays with no pressure he is sadly inaccurate.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:22pm

On a free play I'd much rather the QB throw a deep interception than throw a

Jan 2, 1:44pm

Me too.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:46pm

Nobody is mad he took a deep shot. But it seemed way off.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 1:46pm

correct. He made the right decision to gamble when an INT doesn't hurt us. I'm 100% on board with that. It was just very

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:48pm

Are those the only two options?

thirdgencoug

Jan 2, 8:21pm

Something was up with that pass on the free play.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 1:44pm

My biggest thing with Jake is to figure out 2 things. How/when to throw the end zone fade, and more selectivity when

Bob Vance

Jan 2, 1:46pm

My biggest thing for him in the off-season would be to learn some touch. I've never seen a college QB

kimdaddy35

Jan 2, 1:47pm

same speed and velocity on every throw. I think part of it is his throwing mechanics.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:49pm

Obviously you don't remember Jake Heaps. He rifled the ball on a 5 yard out

SUAVO

Jan 2, 1:58pm

It’s well documented that I am no Jake apologist but the INT on the offsides is

Jan 2, 1:46pm

it was the correct call but doesn't negate that it was a wildly inaccurate throw, highlighting my point. He's not

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:50pm

Yes it does negate it. He’s improvising and completely off-script. Arguing style

xgbs

Jan 2, 3:18pm

You keep ignoring that there was PI on the play. If there no PI, it is accurate

NYC and Japan

Jan 2, 3:18pm

Ehhh, I will give you the INT is a problem, but for mostly two reasons...

ChinaFan

Jan 2, 1:49pm

I've resigned myself to see Jake as an Academy QB. A few options, limited passing, keep the offense moving.

GfB

Jan 2, 1:52pm

While I agree with a lot of that, Jake also saved them on many drives and plays.

Blew

Jan 2, 1:53pm

agreed on all your points. I did notice the last half of the season though, he stopped scrambling as much. Seemed like

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 1:58pm

Jake is a good QB. We are hoping he can take the next step to be a very good QB

mudpupper

Jan 2, 1:53pm

What is your definition of good?

Brisket

Jan 2, 8:40pm

I think the consensus assessment on Jake is that he isn’t an accurate passer. I agree with others that a deep ball shot

RootieBoy

Jan 2, 1:57pm

The reason I brought it up was because it was an INT straight into Sander's arms.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:00pm

BOOO... Who wants to be a QB for a fan base like ours? Go 11-2 and your fans aren't on your side? What? "Come to BYU

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 2:00pm

It’s a dumb way to show your support. We don’t even need a perfect offense if our defense keeps playing elite.

mulletino

Jan 2, 2:13pm

Is "Very Good" objectively true? He's the 62nd ranked QB by QBR. If he were top 25 it would give

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:22pm

Who are you suggesting we get to be QB1? What's your goal here? There is no one to replace Jake. Literally no one. So

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 2:59pm

Big12 Head Coaches (NOT randos like you) voted Jake 3rd best QB in Big12.

NYC and Japan

Jan 2, 3:22pm

If you’re interested, I didn’t say he was “very good” this year. I could have phrased it better.

mulletino

Jan 2, 3:42pm

What is your objective in writing this besides to whine?

MarylandFan

Jan 2, 7:44pm

I think your expectations are unreasonable. This isn't Madden.

SoCalCoug

Jan 2, 2:06pm

Well yeah. He's ranked 62nd in QBR. My mind instantly goes to "what if he were top 25 in QBR". Rare territory for BYU to

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:14pm

<< Deleted >>

chilawcoug

Jan 2, 2:10pm

Conflating a free-play INT muddles your whole point about INTs. INTs are mostly about poor decision making and throwing

mvtoro

Jan 2, 2:12pm

He did include it several times including 10 minutes before your post.

Ripliancum

Jan 2, 2:16pm

The point of my OP is that he's not accurate (and I did state that), so not sure what you are saying? I included it

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:26pm

The descriptions you gave of each actual INT were: “I’ll-advised”, “Not open at all”, “should have been thrown into the

mvtoro

Jan 2, 3:39pm

I would like to be CBer number 437 to completely ignore your point

YOHONOMOTO

Jan 2, 2:28pm

no thank you

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:30pm

I’ll be number 438

stoils

Jan 2, 3:10pm

Who do you think we should get? Who is going to come to Provo and move Jake to QB2?

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:03pm

Jake is probably our guy at this point so it's a moot point. But he has issues

YOHONOMOTO

Jan 2, 4:07pm

I didn't say I want Jake benched or that there is an obvious person to replace him. So many red herrings. I said he is

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:52pm

I hope he gets better but would love to see BYU go after a high profile QB in

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 2:28pm

Not happening.

JuicyJam

Jan 2, 2:53pm

If the right young talent becomes available BYU should nab him for the future

puntersarepeople

Jan 2, 2:56pm

Probably not happening but BYU should try to improve at QB.

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:10pm

How? Who? You guys keeping pointing out what you think is a problem, but you provide no solutions. How does this help?

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:12pm

Offer no help? Well if BYU calls me I'd happily give them advice.

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:18pm

We should stop throwing shade at our coaches and players after an 11-2 season... especially when offering no solutions

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:28pm

Well I'll be sure to help the BYU coaches when they call me. In the meantime

SoValleyCOUG

Jan 2, 3:42pm

ouch... too soon man... too soon...

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 3:44pm

Good analysis. And correct tho inconvenient to acknowledge.

Lombardi

Jan 2, 2:29pm

The shuffle pass hit the TE right in the hands, chest high. Should have been

basman

Jan 2, 2:34pm

You are right - any single play it's hard to get upset about. When I look at his season objectively, he's not an

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 2:40pm

Jake will get better. Leavitt had 16TDs and 1 INT in his last six games

MyTwoCents

Jan 2, 3:10pm

Now do Jake...

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 11:38pm

I think you’re being too critical

Blue Heart

Jan 2, 3:37pm

Echoing HarlemCoug's question above - what are you hoping happens here?

CatManBlue

Jan 2, 3:46pm

Remarking on Jake's lack of consistency and accuracy doesn't always make you a hater.

BYUgoslav

Jan 2, 4:17pm

Jake needs our support... not our criticism.

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 4:35pm

For sure - I think it probably rarely makes someone a hater. I don't believe...

CatManBlue

Jan 2, 5:17pm

LOL you have been biased against Retzlaff since last season.

kaladin58

Jan 2, 6:01pm

It’s silly to focus solely on mistakes and ignore all the great plays Jake made.

Jan 2, 6:41pm

This (at the bottom) is the best point of them all. ALL QB's have errant throws

jaba166

Jan 2, 7:57pm

All of the critiques above need to stop worrying! Jake doesn't give a hoot what

jaba166

Jan 2, 8:07pm

Ouch, you were okay until you compared him with Bosco. Bosco’s numbers are far and away better than Jake’s.

Brisket

Jan 2, 8:44pm

Comparing the mistakes, not the overall numbers. And that was a different team,

jaba166

Jan 2, 10:27pm

I think his wins and accomplishments are well documented and celebrated. Great season overall.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 9:40pm

Then talk about that, then.

jaba166

Jan 2, 10:17pm

Everyone talks about the good. We get "The Cut", Blaine Fowler's blue-goggled take, Jarom and Spence's blue-goggled take

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:35pm

My question...

coventry94

Jan 2, 9:51pm

Nebraska proves that crazy fan expectations can ruin things. Bo Pelini was 67-27 at Nebraska. His worst year was

HarlemCoug

Jan 2, 10:16pm

That's a fair take. And it's yours. Mine is different, and it's also fair.

Haysom Till

Jan 2, 10:46pm

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