Ok - I'll bite. Please explain how spending taxpayer dollars to put this kid in jail and keep him there will help our

Dec 19, 2024
6:05:39pm

HarlemCoug Intervention Needed

society as a whole.

Please tell us more about this kid. What was he like in high school? What about young mens? Was he a good quorum member who could be trusted to help others? Why are you so certain that locking him up with harden criminals is going to help him and going to help us?

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Dec 19, 2024 at 6:05:39pm

Message modified by HarlemCoug on Dec 19, 2024 at 6:07:38pm

Report problem with this ad

HarlemCoug

Previous username: Big12
Bio page: HarlemCoug
Joined: Sep 8, 2014
Last login: Dec 20, 2024
Total posts: 36,509 (4,636 FO)

Report problem with this ad

Messages

Author

Time

Aggravated assault.

mulletino Truly Addicted User

Dec 19, 5:39pm

Seriously, though.

DirtyWater

Dec 19, 5:41pm

Relative of Kem Gardner?

Socrates Johnson

Dec 19, 5:44pm

Grandson. The bottle was thrown from Kem's box.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 5:45pm

Is the kid Christian Gardner's son?

cosmohio

Dec 19, 6:06pm

No. The article says that the kid's father Andrew turned him in.

Thrill

Dec 19, 6:47pm

OK, thx.

cosmohio

Dec 19, 7:18pm

Wonder what his institute's policy is on bottle chucking?

foofcoug

Dec 19, 5:46pm

Grandson. I know the family and they’re good people.

cougarblue

Dec 19, 5:51pm

Just made a mistake?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 5:58pm

Adult (not kid) should be locked up for a long time.

HFF

Dec 19, 5:59pm

It won't do one bit of good to anyone if this kid spends even a day in jail.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:03pm

Yes it will. Kid needs to learn the consequences of outrageous behavior.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:16pm

Pretty sure he's learned a lot by now. Best thing now would be some mercy and a

TailgateU

12:58am

Even a day???

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:20pm

How does it help? What lesson would the kid learn that he hasn't already learned? What deterrent of future crime will

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:00pm

Has the kid been bailed out before?

sfeuz

Dec 19, 8:01pm

No. First time offender who turned himself in.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:03pm

I thought his dad turned him in.

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:11pm

I don't understand your point. Are you implying the dad called without his son's permission? That didn't happen. The dad

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:16pm

My point was the narrative being thrown around was the dad turned him in. It wasn't a loaded question. Thanks for

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:18pm

The point might be that the kid wouldn't have turned himself in if dad didn't.

ochobeeguy

Dec 19, 10:03pm

But even if Dad helped, it happened. Lots of kids improve with parental support

TailgateU

1:00am

Why do we keep talking about an 18 yo man as if he is some 15 yo kid? Not only

Emmett Fitz-Hume

4:53am

I dunno. seems like more 18 y/o act like 15 y/o;s these days...

niqmadu

6:30am

People aren't magically and arbitrarily a "man" at age 18 just because the govt

Saxa

7:05am

How are you related to him? Clown comments.

Haysom Till

Dec 19, 9:41pm

RE: How are you related to him? Clown comments.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 10:00pm

So your suggestion is no actual consequence?

BYU-Laie

12:23am

What would you suggest as punishment, if any?

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:23pm

There will be a two pronged approach in going after him. Criminal and civil. On the criminal side a fine, community

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:44pm

Kids from wealthy families usually don't worry much about the civil consequences

shakarocks

Dec 19, 8:57pm

This is a valid point. If it’s not his money, he really doesn’t face any

Lalau

Dec 19, 9:35pm

Oh yes it will. A day in jail will do him some good.

BlueTroop

Dec 19, 9:02pm

Locked up? Come on now.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:03pm

He likely altered the life of somebody just doing the thing she loved.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:09pm

I don’t see those two things as the same. But jail time doesn’t help.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Even if they are 18 and it is a one time event.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:35pm

It helps a lot. Soft-pedaling violent crime is what doesn't help.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:17pm

I agree jail helps stop crime. But I don’t think jail time in this instance is

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:22pm

It seems the IRS every tax season throws the book at a high profile person.

dratax

Dec 19, 9:08pm

President Hinckley's story on forgiveness seems oddly specific to this situation

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 6:42pm

But the kid in Hinckley's story still did time. Whether or not he happens to

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:20pm

The kid in the story did a few more things than chuck a water bottle so it's

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 10:15pm

Jail time is fair.

SolidBlue

Dec 19, 10:52pm

Maybe. A lot of community service and a civil suit to cover medical bills

ImRonBurgundy?

Dec 19, 11:03pm

Comparing to dropping things on cars is ridiculous

Deleted

Dec 19, 10:06pm

How so? In both situation it is obvious what they are doing is going to hurt

HFF

Dec 19, 10:11pm

Not locked up for a violent crime? Come on now.

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:50pm

A plastic water bottle.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:56pm

Give me a shot at someone with a water bottle and I can mess up their whole month.

AltTabbins

Dec 19, 8:12pm

Ok tough guy.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:06pm

Lol what a clown comment

ColonelMustard

Dec 19, 8:52pm

Yeah, and is the death penalty too unreasonable? Yeesh. Let's not get carried away here. Aggravated assault seems

Bob Vance

Dec 19, 9:56pm

So many of you have no concept of how the criminal justice system works. OTOH,

Socrates Johnson

Dec 19, 11:51pm

Yeah, you would't want

Snipe

Dec 19, 6:09pm

This is only a symptom of something already messed up- best thing

bjc

Dec 19, 6:25pm

This board sure loves to sweep ute missteps under the rug

Ojiisan

Dec 19, 7:00pm

Amen. He saw others throwing it and in the moment you don’t think a water bottle

ColonelMustard

Dec 19, 8:55pm

This is a Utah mob mentality problem. President, AD, Whit, Fans.

ParentingNotForSissy

Dec 19, 10:24pm

If they were "good people" they wouldn't be UofU fans, especially not invested

BYUtka

Dec 19, 9:18pm

Once you're 18, that's the problem with playing a stupid game. The prize is

Emmett Fitz-Hume

Dec 19, 10:53pm

We've never heard this story before

AlternateShot

Dec 19, 11:07pm

What about the cheer coach? Who was

1CougFan

6:23am

Also know the family quite well. VERY good folks! Dumb mistake from a young kid.

robocoug

Dec 19, 10:42pm

I actually feel bad for the kid. It was a really dumb decision, but he was just

Team Chaos

Dec 19, 5:46pm

Not a kid, he deserve harsh punishments. This very well could alter the life

HFF

Dec 19, 6:00pm

Ok - I'll bite. Please explain how spending taxpayer dollars to put this kid in jail and keep him there will help our

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:05pm

Ok - I’ll bite should we just ignore all violent crime because somebody isn’t

HFF

Dec 19, 6:06pm

No. Please explain to us why this kid is one who deserves to get "locked up for a long time."

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:07pm

Because the prosecutors have determined he is eligible for up to 5 yrs. If found

HFF

Dec 19, 6:11pm

Tell us more about him. You seem to be the expert. I keep asking for you to tell us but you continue to ignore. What is

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:14pm

He is vile person that took the opportunity to harm somebody for cheering for a

HFF

Dec 19, 6:18pm

Be careful. I think this is true and I think you're bringing unnecessary harm your way. "For with what judgment ye

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:22pm

I’m sorry that I am sympathetic to the victim and want the perpetrator to face

HFF

Dec 19, 6:25pm

You're not sorry. You're blood thirsty. You aren't fooling anyone. You don't know a thing about this kid and yet you

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:28pm

I don’t want blood, I want him to be punished for the crime he committed.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:48pm

RE: Be careful. I think this is true and I think you're bringing unnecessary

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:23pm

I don’t know how you feel OK making all those assumptions based on one dumb

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:24pm

I’ll break it down. He took a full water bottle and threw it at somebody causing

HFF

Dec 19, 6:28pm

Do you want to be judged by your singular worst decision made after the age

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Lol, I can honestly say I have done nothing that would bring charges. It’s not

HFF

Dec 19, 6:33pm

If it’s felony grade-yes

bjc

Dec 19, 7:19pm

Do you think he threw it "at somebody" or threw it onto the field, inadvertantly

Best Guess

Dec 19, 7:07pm

He threw it where there was a lot of people, to me he wanted to hit somebody.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:09pm

The charge carries with it a sentence of up to 5 years

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:33pm

He needs to make full restitution to the victim.

sfeuz

Dec 19, 6:41pm

RE: The charge carries with it a sentence of up to 5 years

bluecougar1985

Dec 19, 9:22pm

You seem to be on the other end of the spectrum where he shouldn't spend a single day incarcerated for an aggravated

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 6:12pm

There will be a civil lawsuit. Most likely he has a trust fund that is at risk. He also will certainly have plenty of

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:19pm

He could lose his trust fund? Say it ain't so!

downtownchrisbrown

Dec 19, 6:28pm

I would be so screwed if I lost my trust fund

creameryon9th

Dec 19, 6:36pm

Some real self worth and confidence there. Guess earning money is out of the

Wife_Apologist

Dec 19, 9:19pm

If a trust fund is lost, someone didn’t set it up correctly. One of the main

SpudNut

Dec 19, 8:22pm

It's called justice for the victim and sending a message so those who might

C-dubb

Dec 19, 7:22pm

That seems a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is suggesting condoning violence. But justice and mercy can balance

unctoothman

Dec 19, 7:29pm

So you get to decide for the victim?

C-dubb

Dec 19, 8:01pm

Nope. The legal system does. Thankfully. That's a lot better than a sports message board.

unctoothman

Dec 19, 8:29pm

Board name...

C-dubb

5:09am

Glad you bit. The kid, who's part of society, will learn that there really are

Threw and Through

Dec 19, 7:26pm

I'm honestly puzzled by your take

MyTwoCents

6:43am

What evidence do you have that he "deliberately attempt to cause serious physical injury to another person". More than

HarlemCoug

7:03am

Did it cause lasting damage to the victim? What has she said about it?

Tiburon

Dec 19, 6:51pm

At a minimum it was a concussion that on its own can be life altering.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:21pm

They can also recover completely. Guarantee if it was your kid you wouldn’t

Metallicat

Dec 19, 8:14pm

This was actually a very interesting discussion in this thread between justice

SJBLUE

Dec 19, 7:20pm

That's brilliant! The judge could sentence him to serve as her butler!

Buster Scruggs

Dec 19, 10:15pm

He turned himself in. What dad would let their kid make that 1st phone call? It's Sunday, you don't have a lawyer. So

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 10:23pm

"He threw a water bottle after seeing others do the same"...when in uteville, do as other yewts do I guess

CLCougar

Dec 19, 5:47pm

He had no choice at that point.

byulover

Dec 19, 5:54pm

Looks like they saw the CB thread yesterday and got moving. Thank goodness

Nikomedes

Dec 19, 5:52pm

Of course he should not have thrown the bottle, but just really bad luck

Blue Heart

Dec 19, 5:54pm

That's not bad luck. There were a ton of people down there. It's not surprising

byubyu

Dec 19, 5:55pm

It’s probably surprising not more people got hit

Blue Heart

Dec 19, 5:57pm

so it was bad luck that it hit someone or that he got caught?

BYU Grounds

Dec 19, 6:12pm

Wow 6 weeks of therapy? That seems like a lot for a concussion.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 5:55pm

It isn't

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:00pm

What type of therapy? I’ve know plenty of people who have gotten

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:01pm

There are varying degrees of concussion - some people are in therapy

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:03pm

Ok genuinely curious. What do they do in the therapy? Like cognitive things

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:04pm

Yes amongst other things. Here is a local clinic website that does this stuff

yahtzee

Dec 19, 6:08pm

I haven’t seen that post but sounds bad. Sorry to hear that.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

And I know people who get in car accidents and don't die

Belboz

Dec 19, 9:28pm

"As many as"

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:00pm

True. But I guess I’m not aware of what theory is needed for a concussion.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:02pm

Seems unwise to draw a conclusion ("seems like a lot for a concussion")

StantonMac

Dec 19, 6:08pm

I’ve just never heard of therapy for it, but I’m learning about it right now.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:32pm

My son had a concussion in HS Bball game. It was months before he could ..

fan_byu

Dec 19, 8:32pm

Sometimes the therapy is recommended by a lawyer and not by a doctor. I have no idea if that's the case here.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:30pm

Yeah sadly I’ve heard that with other injuries.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:33pm

The effect of a concussion can last a lifetime

Belboz

Dec 19, 9:27pm

I’ve been educated tonight. I guess when I say concussion I was meaning a

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:33pm

Throw the book at him!!! Maybe not the best analogy here…

Reasonable1

Dec 19, 5:57pm

He'll plead to simple assault and get community service.

Mister P

Dec 19, 5:58pm

Which feels right honestly.

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 5:59pm

Why will a plea be necessary?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:01pm

So he doesn't go to jail?

Mister P

Dec 19, 6:07pm

Should the prosecutor's job be to see that he doesn't go to jail?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:12pm

I think it's good to make a public example here to prevent it in the future but

NOCAL_YFAN

Dec 19, 6:00pm

How does everyone here know that he has good character?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:02pm

I didn't say anything about his character.

NOCAL_YFAN

Dec 19, 6:02pm

Why let someone off easy if you don't know about them?

Plantagenet

Dec 19, 6:13pm

It’s one thing that always annoys me about CB

BaseCoug

Dec 19, 6:14pm

We have many peculiar folks here

vegas guey

Dec 19, 6:30pm

Hope she sues him and all the money goes to BYU NIL.

Longseason

Dec 19, 6:03pm

I hope she sues in puts it all away for herself, head injuries are no joke.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:05pm

Yeah at 18 you should know not to throw a water bottle from a suite towards

Texas_forever

Dec 19, 6:04pm

Yeah. He knew he was throwing it in the direction of the BYU cheer team

Julius Pepperwood

Dec 19, 6:12pm

A- this is not a kid, he’s an adult B- the act was reckless & malicious C- he

Lifi

Dec 19, 6:16pm

Harlem must be family the way he is defending the perp and dismissing the victim

HFF

Dec 19, 6:26pm

Actually - I know Jocelyn well and have never met the kid. So you're wrong yet again.

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 6:31pm

Ask her if she think he should serve jail time.

HFF

Dec 19, 6:36pm

And what if she says “no”? Would you back off then? Or still demand blood?

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:40pm

Why do you keep saying that I am demanding blood? I am saying he should get a

HFF

Dec 19, 6:43pm

Which to you appears to have him drawn and quartered and hung in the public

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:51pm

I have literally said I think he should be incarcerated for a long time. In this

HFF

Dec 19, 6:55pm

You know nothing about me. I’ve supported tough on crime policies my entire

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 6:58pm

Ok but you are comfortable calling me blood thirst for saying he should get

HFF

Dec 19, 7:04pm

I think you have made yourself clear. You aren’t interested in the facts

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:20pm

“You do you” out there in Chicago, here we should punish crime.

HFF

Dec 19, 7:25pm

Haven’t lived in Chicago in years. But hey if you didn’t have anything you

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:43pm

And justice for you.

sfeuz

Dec 19, 8:04pm

I think judging comes far more naturally and doesn’t require much study. But

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 9:11pm

I especially hope she sues the U of U.

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 7:36pm

I dislike the UofU plenty, but why should it be civilly liable for the criminal act of a fan attending the game?

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 7:43pm

Good way to get nets up in every stadium. Schools cannot be held liable for

ChiCityCoug

Dec 19, 7:44pm

Industry standard it to take the lids off bottle when you sell them. It's done in most stadia for this very reason. Utah

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 7:57pm

I guess BYU is below the standard of care as well. I purchased water bottles this year at the stadium with the cap.

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 8:01pm

Why would they be published?

HarlemCoug

Dec 19, 8:06pm

You said it was an industry standard. In my experience, industry standards are generally published so that people who

SierraCoug

Dec 19, 8:11pm

No idea, legally. But they're deplorable, morally. So I hope there's a case.

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 8:35pm

I guess its because we are nice people.... thats why.... unless your name is

niqmadu

6:34am

Just sad all around. Extremely sad for the victim and I hope she can make a

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:26pm

So, don’t punish him? Good grief.

Lifi

Dec 19, 6:32pm

Nice straw man there. Didn’t say that at all.

allaboutthegainz

Dec 19, 6:33pm

Punish the kid but that’s not aggravated assault! At most a class A misdemeanor

upperdecky

Dec 19, 6:38pm

It doesn't have to involve a weapon to be a 3rd degree felony.

byubyu

Dec 19, 6:48pm

And even then... a full water bottle from a hundred feet up is def a weapon

YOHONOMOTO

Dec 19, 7:38pm

Have you looked up the legal definition of aggravated assault? Please do so and

Ghost of Peanut

Dec 19, 7:15pm

RE: Punish the kid but that’s not aggravated assault! At most a class A

yahtzee

Dec 19, 7:19pm

Funny how Furlong and Bartle aren’t tweeting about this.

Dangerous

Dec 19, 6:43pm

Seems Harsh imo. But I guess I didn’t interact with the kid.

conetah

Dec 19, 6:52pm

Jail time should could determine other from similar actions in the future.

Cougsanity

Dec 19, 8:10pm

Y'all are thinking wayyyy too hard about this

creameryon9th

Dec 19, 8:22pm

They should just settle to drop the charges. Gardner’s are loaded and take it ou

Big Daddy D

Dec 19, 8:25pm

Guys when I graduated high school we smashed mailboxes for fun

DodgerCoug

Dec 19, 8:57pm

You knocked somebody out cold while smashing mailboxes?

Ghost of Peanut

Dec 19, 9:16pm

A persons head is not the same as a mailbox

Mot

12:39am

Were none of you teenagers, or ever raise teenagers

A_blue_car

Dec 19, 9:53pm

I was, and I broke my fair share of laws. And, I've raised teenagers, and gave

Emmett Fitz-Hume

Dec 19, 11:01pm

I don’t think a single person has argued there should be zero consequences.

Posting on CougarBoard