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Apr 21, 2021
7:04
:28
pm
All-American
All-American
Frankly, yes.
In evaluating his career at BYU it is fair to exclude from consideration things he didn’t do during his career at BYU.
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All-American
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all_american01
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All-American
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Last login
Sep 20, 2024
Total posts
15,308 (49 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
I hate that you're making me write this.
Ham
4/21/21 4:53pm
I blame it on Recency Bias.
Y-Zag
4/21/21 4:55pm
I blame it on either Decoy Effect or Gambler's Fallacy
jamalccc
4/21/21 8:37pm
I blame it on not beating Utah
King of Y
4/21/21 11:37pm
Yeah. For those of you so young Max Hall was your childhood icon.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 7:35am
agree, wish him absolute best, but that is some tough company
byu1
4/21/21 4:57pm
No records?
cougfanblue
4/21/21 4:58pm
Basing my info on Cougarstats
Ham
4/21/21 5:00pm
That's fine, but there are more QB stats than the 4 they have on there.
cougfanblue
4/21/21 5:02pm
Agreed ... Zach's career stats compare favorably with any of BYU's top QB's
ManicBlue
4/21/21 5:31pm
Top one? That's just not right. Top four, probably not unless he had come back.
All-American
4/21/21 5:06pm
You’re saying he’s too good to be considered top 4, because he’s a top-2 draft pick. That’s messed up.
cougfanblue
4/21/21 5:09pm
Look, the guy never beat Utah.
All-American
4/21/21 5:33pm
Utah was a high school team compared to where they are now
ManicBlue
4/21/21 5:48pm
Hold on, are you discounting BYU's Heisman winner in an effort to win this
kos
4/21/21 7:06pm
Obviously not discounting the Heisman. smh
ManicBlue
4/21/21 8:17pm
Are you kidding? How many P5 teams did ZW face in 2020? Zero, me thinks. Easier
Cougarbib
4/21/21 11:12pm
Put Zach in Lavell’s offensive system and he’s all of those things.
cougfanblue
4/21/21 5:52pm
But, he didn't.
Cougarbib
4/21/21 5:59pm
Do you realize how many yards Ty Detmer would have had in 1989 if he
Y05
4/23/21 3:01pm
And soon he’ll have the record for the highest draft spot in BYU history.
cougfanblue
4/21/21 5:07pm
Top one? He didn't win any awards. He didn't really win anything
Alpi Gusto
4/21/21 5:18pm
Yeah, he's not close to top 1.
volleyjiver
4/21/21 5:56pm
Winning awards is an unfair measuring stick now. Non P5 players aren’t winning
DiamondMo
4/21/21 6:15pm
In addition, Zach passed Sark for best career completion percentage too.
ManicBlue
4/21/21 6:40pm
Completion percentage and Y/A have more to do with era than with QB talent
krindorr
4/25/21 11:31am
Agreed. Those records are significant. I'd rate him 4th in that photo. The eye
Forzaitalia
4/21/21 7:42pm
Bosco won a NC playing on a badly injured leg and won 9 games as a senior
Cougarbib
4/21/21 11:14pm
Bosco's throwing was diminished after that should injury, just as Zach was after
Forzaitalia
4/24/21 8:47pm
Bosco's injury was career ending. He played through it his senior year, but
Cougarbib
4/24/21 9:29pm
I can't believe you are making me post this:
Turnpike Lane
4/21/21 5:08pm
Maybe not an ‘all-time great’ according to your def. but he is top 2 “best”
Zaphod
4/21/21 5:10pm
Marc Wilson, BYU's first consensus All-American and 2x Super Bowl champ would
Parker Schnabel
4/21/21 5:10pm
Albeit minor roles in those two Super Bowl wins.
lightmann
4/21/21 5:58pm
If you don't beat Utah then you're not top 4
cambo
4/21/21 5:10pm
Please. In the days those guys beat Utah, it was like beating USU now. Which he did. And those are the facts.
Turnpike Lane
4/21/21 5:13pm
Your facts don't negate my facts
cambo
4/21/21 5:18pm
Also, ZW never beat USU either
cambo
4/21/21 5:23pm
Never started against them
Charles Darwin
4/21/21 5:30pm
Yes, but he never had a season ending injury against them either.
Parker Schnabel
4/21/21 10:38pm
Are you kidding. Interceptions. Pick 6.Fumbles. ZW had 1 good season and we did
Cougarbib
4/21/21 6:04pm
So he's penalized for being good enough to skip his senior season and get
GhostRider
4/21/21 6:07pm
Frankly, yes.
All-American
4/21/21 7:04pm
Yes. He chose that over Legacy and once you make that choice it is made. I love
Cougarbib
4/21/21 11:26pm
I guess there are two different debates here. Talent vs Accomplishment.
GhostRider
4/22/21 1:35am
Exactly. And they have different answers.
mvtoro
4/22/21 1:45am
Yes. That’s why nobody is talking about Hancock.
All-American
4/22/21 6:26am
Or Walsh. Both sold their legacy.
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:28am
People would talk about them if they had more successful NFL careers though.
GhostRider
4/22/21 10:35am
Haha, really disappointing seeing people use the same lame arguments that uneducated pundits are using to predict...
cougfanblue
4/21/21 6:35pm
I did not predict NFL Bust. He will get his shot. I hope he gets a ring or 2.
Cougarbib
4/21/21 11:30pm
Then again, you never did like ZW did you? 😉 Always wanted BR to start over ZW
coug719
4/22/21 11:03am
Always? No. 2019. Yes after ZW and JH went down until it became clear BR was
Cougarbib
4/22/21 11:44am
Team accomplishment, sorry.
Lip Gallagher
4/21/21 5:25pm
Did beating Utah make John Beck’s career better?
All-American
4/21/21 7:18pm
Agreed. He capitalized on the cards 2020 dealt better than anyone else
LifelongAP
4/21/21 5:12pm
2020 was more like the schedules of the other 3 greats. And his year was best.
Turnpike Lane
4/21/21 5:17pm
Ty beat the #1 team in the country
AF Cougar
4/21/21 8:30pm
Young beat Pac 10 and Rose Bowl champ on the road.
Y05
4/22/21 2:11am
I guess I wasn’t around for some of those guys you mention but...
stenso
4/21/21 5:17pm
*except John Beck. Zach may throw a better ball, but Beck’s motion was just
flyonawall
4/21/21 7:28pm
Your ignorance is so sweet.
LaVellIfIKnow
4/21/21 5:20pm
Drafted #2 overall seems pretty significant to me.. you can't just discount NFL
GhostRider
4/21/21 5:22pm
Depends. Would you call Ziggy the best defensive player ever at BYU?
Parker Schnabel
4/21/21 10:40pm
I'm not saying it makes him the best QB to play at BYU, but it is significant.
GhostRider
4/22/21 1:31am
Love ZW but you're right and it's a testament to the history of BYU QBs
krindorr
4/21/21 5:27pm
Did you watch this season?
ParentingNotForSissy
4/21/21 5:29pm
My list having watched them all in person except Nielsen and Carter
ManicBlue
4/21/21 5:40pm
you give sark a lot more credit than most, I agree. The 96 team may be best ever
nybyblue
4/21/21 5:50pm
I agree about Steve Young. Take away his NFL career and i don't think people
GhostRider
4/21/21 5:51pm
LoL. He somehow got a $46M contract from USFL and gave the NFL the finger. Must
Cougarbib
4/22/21 9:03pm
2nd in the Heisman is pretty elite
stansburycoug
4/22/21 9:12pm
I can get behind this list.
BlackBart
4/21/21 5:52pm
Honestly, growing up as a Utah fan, Sark never impressed or scared me
krindorr
4/21/21 6:12pm
RE: Honestly, growing up as a Utah fan, Sark never impressed or scared me
ManicBlue
4/21/21 6:22pm
Like I said, it could just be bias because of the lens I saw him through
krindorr
4/22/21 7:27am
Sark, like Wilson, had 1 great season. He was a JC transfer, so really only got
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:27am
Sark was definitely not the issue his Sr year.
ManicBlue
4/22/21 3:59pm
Like I said, it was largely a matter of perspective
krindorr
4/22/21 4:23pm
I agree with this list.
cougfanblue
4/21/21 6:33pm
Young was a better pro than college, but still top 3, maybe 2.
ochobeeguy
4/21/21 7:08pm
That’s true, but only because he was one of the best pro QBs ever from any school. He was still amazing in college. Only
mvtoro
4/22/21 2:05pm
His NFL career was no surprise. USFL gave him a $46M contract, iirc. Unheard of
Cougarbib
4/22/21 6:12pm
Right. Unquestionably the greatest pro QB BYU has produced by a long ways. A pro career like that can overshadow his BYU
mvtoro
4/22/21 6:47pm
He was quoted today saying he was told by one NFL team that they were going to
Cougarbib
4/23/21 2:33pm
100%. I think his contract with the USFL was the biggest ever at the time wasn’t it? Bigger than any in the NFL? Easy to
mvtoro
4/23/21 3:07pm
Nope, Marc Wilson was not #9
AF Cougar
4/21/21 8:33pm
Your list?
ManicBlue
4/22/21 12:35am
Pretty decent list. But beck was better than hall IMO and Sark, Marc, and Young
ColonelMustard
4/22/21 12:11am
Maybe the answer is to make BYU QB Mt Rushmore 6 faces instead of 4
gww687
4/21/21 5:49pm
Why don't we go with nine faces
Wingnut
4/21/21 5:55pm
No No No, 11 play the game, 11 are on the mountain. Who destroyed Texas twice?
nybyblue
4/21/21 5:58pm
Beck and Marc Wilson are not ahead of Z. Wilson
BlackBart
4/21/21 5:51pm
Beating Utah should also be a requirement.
fudgers
4/21/21 5:54pm
This is a silly and unfair measurement
deliciousmocha
4/21/21 8:51pm
Just was about to type this. Greats beat Utah. He never did.
P-Widdy
4/21/21 8:55pm
Utah was not the power in Young, McMahon and Detmer's day that it was in Zach's.
Forzaitalia
4/21/21 10:23pm
Apples and oranges with the QBs from **checks notes** ~40 years ago
DanSmith
4/21/21 6:06pm
I haven’t given it a ton of thought but ZW needed more meaningful wins for me
climps
4/21/21 6:11pm
No one else beat Tennessee at Knoxville
kiyoshige
4/21/21 6:18pm
Tennessee?
cougssu
4/21/21 6:38pm
Boise State is still picking pieces of the blue turf out of their ears.
Y05
4/22/21 7:48pm
That was not a very good Boise State team.
Cougarbib
4/22/21 8:56pm
Covid. Nuff said.
MrClark
4/21/21 6:51pm
ZW is probably the most talented QB in BYU history. But he isn't the most
mudpupper
4/21/21 7:59pm
No kidding. Like him, but good grief the overhype is at Provo levels with ZW.
dccoug
4/21/21 8:50pm
I bet that the vast majority of those saying ZW deserves to be in the top 4 are
BleedCougarBlue2
4/21/21 9:04pm
Even more that never saw Marc Wilson, or Virgil Carter throwing to Phil Odle
AF Cougar
4/21/21 9:30pm
I’m 41 but didn’t get into football until Sarkisian....
ByuImaginesDragons
4/21/21 9:48pm
Max was great in many ways, but if he had Wilson's talent
SinkingQuffa
4/21/21 10:18pm
Ummm, he won more games than any other QB in BYU history.
gww687
4/21/21 10:28pm
Did anything I say suggest I don't accept or honor that record & great career?
SinkingQuffa
4/21/21 10:44pm
*The team won... If you want to compare a QB to another QB, you have to take into account supporting cast, opponent,
mvtoro
4/22/21 12:43am
There are actually unanswered questions. The Jury is in on Max Hall. We saw how
Cougarbib
4/22/21 4:16am
I think there is more than only talent that goes into success or failure for a Qb in the NFL. My assessment is of their
mvtoro
4/22/21 4:28am
Mental side is more important than physical skill. Decision making under heat.
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:30am
That’s fine. You can claim that 2020 didn’t really prove ZW’s skill and talent. Hall for sure has a bigger BYU sample
mvtoro
4/22/21 2:02pm
It can't. Wilson never played anyone of note other than games he lost with 1
Cougarbib
4/22/21 6:15pm
That’s probably why you’re not an analyst. Evaluating a player’s talent is more than just looking at wins and losses.
mvtoro
4/22/21 10:35pm
Thick as a brick. I will repeat myself. Nobody is arguing that Max Hall was more
Cougarbib
4/23/21 11:07am
You’re going to have to go back and try to find some of those reading comp skills. This sub thread BEGAN with a comment
mvtoro
4/23/21 12:36pm
He is unproven. That is the fact. Jake Heaps looked great in practice. Fooled a
Cougarbib
4/23/21 2:44pm
BYU elite based on BYU career are McMahon, Young, Detmer, and Bosco. ZW is not
Cougarbib
4/23/21 2:52pm
You replied to me and continue to say a lot of things that have nothing to do with anything I said.
mvtoro
4/23/21 8:10pm
ZW is unproven. Live with it. Clearly he has the physical tools. Decision making
Cougarbib
4/24/21 12:02pm
“Clearly has the physical skills” Exactly what I’ve said from the VERY BEGINNING. You keep trying to turn my argument
mvtoro
4/24/21 2:12pm
Don't be simple minded. More talented is not just about physical skills. Jake
Cougarbib
4/24/21 3:19pm
Fine. Be as anal as you want to be. Back to the point: “Zach Wilson is more talented than Max Hall.” You can argue all
mvtoro
4/24/21 8:04pm
Any professional evaluator would agree that his decision making is quite
Cougarbib
4/24/21 9:40pm
Parse as much as you like. If you ask any of those evaluators who is more talented between Max and Zach, they won’t say
mvtoro
4/25/21 1:13am
Keep dodging the question. Do you think ZW decision making vs good let alone
Cougarbib
4/25/21 7:30am
RE: Keep dodging the question. Do you think ZW decision making vs good let
GhostRider
4/25/21 8:36am
That’s not the question. I said Zach was “more talented”. You chose to argue that. If you want to change to some other
mvtoro
4/25/21 11:41am
Have you considered changing your name to Dodgeball? I get that clinging on
Cougarbib
4/25/21 1:10pm
Physically. Total package. Take your pick, friend! Zach is a more talented QB than Max either way. It’s that simple.
mvtoro
4/25/21 3:36pm
Simple. That is the word that comes to mind every time you pop up. Simple.
Cougarbib
4/25/21 6:07pm
Personal attacks aren’t the most graceful admission of defeat, but it’s probably better than quadrupling down on the
mvtoro
4/25/21 7:14pm
LoL. Look in the mirror.
Cougarbib
4/25/21 8:22pm
RE: LoL. Look in the mirror.
mvtoro
4/25/21 9:03pm
"a major contributor to Utah losses"
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 5:31am
3 picks
cougssu
4/22/21 7:16am
Didn't the great Max match that in a single infamous yewt game?
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 7:20am
I would say
cougssu
4/22/21 7:35am
Our team this last year would beat every yewt team Max took down.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 7:37am
Swell. Hypothetical. ZW could have proven something in 2021. He bailed on his
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:35am
Bailed? C'mon man. I argued vehemently here that it was in the interests of the
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 11:27am
He bailed on his BYU legacy. I am not even saying he made the wrong
Cougarbib
4/22/21 11:50am
When it counted, he hit his TE in the tightest window ever. Andrew George
Cougarbib
4/22/21 11:56am
Beating USC in Provo is an example of a game Max COULDN'T have won.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 12:15pm
And how would we know that. But, we do know that beating U at RES is something
Cougarbib
4/22/21 12:23pm
With their DBs it woulda been a TCU type situation.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 12:32pm
No. Max did not throw 3 pick 6s vs Utah in a single game.
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:32am
Those 5 pics included a few that might as well gone all the way.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 11:28am
Other than ball control and decision making issues.
Cougarbib
4/22/21 10:31am
Um. Two things Max advocates shouldn't be throwing out there in this argument.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 11:29am
George is still running. Hall paid his dues. But, if he lost that game to Utah
Cougarbib
4/22/21 12:03pm
Oh. Okay. I got the math down now. You make the rules.
SinkingQuffa
4/22/21 12:16pm
Yeah, but there are seven he lost.
All-American
4/23/21 1:09pm
Steve Sarkisian, Doman would be favorable comparisons for BYU careers
stansburycoug
4/21/21 11:17pm
Sark may be the most underrated of the greats.
lightmann
4/23/21 1:04pm
RE: I hate that you're making me write this.
Pangare
4/22/21 6:46am
Bosco has to make the Rushmore, he won a natty
ZeldaCoug
4/22/21 7:50am
His season was an all-timer, not his career.
'69chevy
4/22/21 9:42am
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