When in doubt, say the evidence against you is politically motivated I guess!

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Sep 15, 2023
12:00:44pm

runnincoug Truly Addicted User

When in doubt, say the evidence against you is politically motivated I guess!

Or,alternatively, disparage then as obviously not a high quality enough org to REALLY understand. Condescending works too!

Sorry to be snarky, but you have to see that you haven't really provided any evidence besides your opinion. You may be right, but I'm not convinced without something more solid. We may just have to agree to disagree unless you have more persuasive evidence.

But this convo shows why the general public is against ceos generally. They haven't done a good job of justifying their pay without saying "trust me, I'm worth it". The general public is skeptical.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Sep 15, 2023 at 12:00:44pm

Message modified by runnincoug on Sep 15, 2023 at 12:02:42pm

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runnincoug

Bio page: runnincoug
Joined: May 26, 2011
Last login: Sep 7, 2024
Total posts: 35,414 (2,728 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

These UAW demands are amazing.

Abe Froman

9/15/23 7:35am

Seems like a non-starter to get pensions added back.

KingDave

9/15/23 7:40am

All you have to do is go through bankruptcy and the pension is worthless. 401k

TailgateU

9/15/23 11:04am

First rule of negotiation, anchor high. And UAW did just that.

WDaddy

9/15/23 7:41am

Worked great for the PAC 12.

Tokolosh

9/15/23 7:42am

The PAC didn't know when to back off the high demands. Same will happen to UAW

Corn Pop

9/15/23 7:48am

Betcha George Kliavkoff is advising the UAW 😃

9/15/23 7:57am

But the PAC didn’t have POTUS backing them. UAW might.

NYC and Japan

9/15/23 8:20am

Unless you're the pac12

machete

9/15/23 7:43am

Lol that’s true. They anchored high with no leverage and got called on their BS.

WDaddy

9/15/23 7:47am

AI and automation are not the threat to the US. It is the ridiculous expectations and sense of entitlement

9/15/23 7:44am

The concessions they got were really good so I don’t get the strike

9/15/23 7:44am

UAW is asking for too much. Hollywood has been screwing over writers for decades

IrishBlue

9/15/23 8:22am

The writers who are valuable will get paid and the rest will be replaced by ChatGPT

9/15/23 8:36am

I think they’ll get the 32 hour week. Recent studies show it works

Longseason

9/15/23 7:45am

For office workers, not on a factory line. That’s crazy.

NotRelated

9/15/23 7:50am

Good point. Still think they’ll get it

Longseason

9/15/23 7:56am

I believe there are studies out of South Korean manufacturing plants that showed

downtownchrisbrown

9/15/23 8:00am

What happens when that becomes the norm and is too much for them? Workers then want a 28 hour work week?

No touching

9/15/23 8:08am

It isn't about what they want as much as what's productive. Sometimes less=more

runnincoug

9/15/23 8:19am

I keep hearing this but it seems like if it were true they wouldn’t have to

CaliforniaCougar22

9/15/23 8:28am

Alot of people don't believe research that contradicts their beliefs including

runnincoug

9/15/23 9:16am

As they are a union they do.

9/15/23 9:47am

But you then must hire more workers anyway. Or, just automate everything.

LeGrandBleu

9/15/23 8:29am

Productivity follows an S curve with a very truncated start. Workers fulfill the most valuable task first, then the next

RobertCohn

9/15/23 10:11am

Just remember how easy it is to lie with statistics. Productivity per hour

delbert

9/15/23 11:56am

I would think it would be more true for factory floor where the work is

IrishBlue

9/15/23 8:24am

But in an auto plant you are on a line. It doesn’t matter how energized you are,

cougsareforreal

9/15/23 1:46pm

UAW is just begging Ford and GM to ship jobs overseas 🤡

9/15/23 7:45am

Shift back to defined benefit pensions?

Indy Coug

9/15/23 7:47am

1965 called and wants its retirement plan back

9/15/23 7:49am

Wait. You can call people back then?

TNT

9/15/23 7:51am

Oh yeah, 1965 telegraphed and wants its retirement plan back

9/15/23 7:54am

Fascinating. Maybe TNT will call his grandmother

TNT

9/15/23 7:55am

Might have to bring in Pony Express for that one

9/15/23 7:57am

I like it. The defined benefit could be $1 per week.

TeeKaa

9/15/23 8:04am

That’s too high

9/15/23 8:09am

$1 quarterly.

TeeKaa

9/15/23 8:19am

Better, folks should be responsible for own retirement, that’s what 401k for!

9/15/23 8:57am

If they only have a DB plan, employer retirement contributions go WAAAAAY down.

TeeKaa

9/15/23 9:11am

I support the idea of unions but too many are way too greedy and turn me off

runnincoug

9/15/23 7:48am

Try being a first line supervisor at an OE and get back to me...

Catfish

9/15/23 7:52am

No thanks. But being a finance manager over a vehicle product line sure is stressful…

Tokolosh

9/15/23 8:01am

It's the worst.

9/15/23 8:58am

I have mixed feelings. My step-father worked for Goodyear Aerospace and was a

AF_Puma

9/15/23 8:26am

I agree! Unions can be really important. I want to be pro union, but...

runnincoug

9/15/23 9:26am

100 years ago, yes. Now? Unions suck, especially the ones you listed.

TeeKaa

9/15/23 9:45am

As long as CEO pay is completely insane we will unfortunately need unions

Mitty

9/15/23 10:31am

CEOs get paid $$$ because they make the tough decisions that have huge impact. A person with even a slightly higher

RobertCohn

9/15/23 10:42am

Yeah, they do. Their huge bonuses show no correlation with doing a better or

Goliath

9/15/23 10:45am

That's not true at all.

Skeptical Optimist

9/15/23 10:48am

Yes, it is

Goliath

9/15/23 11:34am

Oh, we should have called you to assess how well CEOs are doing? What are your metrics?

RobertCohn

9/15/23 11:35am

There's really no evidence paying ceos more money gets you better people.

runnincoug

9/15/23 11:05am

That's why CEO pay has so many options involved. They should be paid for success

TailgateU

9/15/23 11:11am

They have leverage and can negotiate whatever they want. Shareholders (investors) are free to say no.

RobertCohn

9/15/23 11:43am

First of all, show a CEO getting paid billions that isn't entirely performance related pay (stock).

RobertCohn

9/15/23 11:39am

I've been on BoDs hiring CEOs as well and think you're way overselling their

runnincoug

9/15/23 11:46am

You must be working with some spectacularly average CEO candidates

RobertCohn

9/15/23 11:48am

When in doubt, say the evidence against you is politically motivated I guess!

runnincoug

9/15/23 12:00pm

Lol what? It's basic math bud. Someone running a $200 B market cap company can destroy billions of value instantly by

RobertCohn

9/15/23 6:34pm

You could not be more wrong. CEOs aren't these magical people that

Mitty

9/15/23 12:09pm

I have no issue paying the CEO of Ford 20 million per year when Robert Downey Jr

delbert

9/15/23 12:05pm

Half of super bowl winning qbs over the last 10 years have been in the BOTTOM

runnincoug

9/15/23 12:26pm

Does that stay true after they won? I would expect their next negotiation to start with “so, about that Super Bowl win”

TwinsRight

9/15/23 1:03pm

oh sure. But paying a QB 10x more than another doesn't predict a SB win like

runnincoug

9/15/23 1:54pm

Paying the good ones absolutely. However companies have some pathetic ones and

9/15/23 4:00pm

Most of those demands are to recapture benefits that were taken away

Everyman

9/15/23 7:50am

Moral and economic high ground? To bring back pensions?

Iman23

9/15/23 7:52am

Those demands outrageous, they lucky US still has auto industry to provide jobs

9/15/23 7:53am

Correct.

shammy

9/15/23 7:59am

And then will proceed to lose all of those cushy jobs

nova_coug_fan

9/15/23 7:54am

I'm generally not a fan of unions

Goliath

9/15/23 7:57am

<< Deleted >>

Cougarmayn

9/15/23 7:59am

None of the automakers’ stock has been strong over the past five years

RevolutionDeathsquad

9/15/23 8:16am

They are only striking at a couple of plants because they know that their funds

AggieWeekendCougar

9/15/23 7:51am

Unions-where your pay scale is determined by the least productive person

Notparticularly

9/15/23 7:56am

Execs at car companies got a 40% pay increase over the past few years

Goliath

9/15/23 7:56am

If the GM CEO reduced her salary to $0 and distributed it across all GM workers,

Skeptical Optimist

9/15/23 8:07am

The point still stands

Goliath

9/15/23 8:18am

UAW employees all got profit sharing checks in addition to regular pay.

rad dawg

9/15/23 8:19am

I don't know all the facts and details of this issue

Goliath

9/15/23 8:25am

Execs don't work 32 hour weeks

rad dawg

9/15/23 8:33am

I don't think they went on strike because they weren't getting 32 hr work weeks

Goliath

9/15/23 8:45am

You must be an exec.

Y-Phile

9/15/23 10:10am

My last CEO was amazing. Guy worked 24/7 and implemented a strategy that will

LeGrandBleu

9/15/23 11:33am

RE: I don't know all the facts and details of this issue

AggieWeekendCougar

9/15/23 8:52am

GM profit for 2022 was $23 Billion. Mary Barra's $29 Million in compensation

Skeptical Optimist

9/15/23 8:22am

You completely missed the point.

Y-Phile

9/15/23 10:07am

This is TIC right?

rad dawg

9/15/23 8:19am

What if the execs had lost 10% over the past few years, would you be in favor of

Penske Material

9/15/23 8:28am

I, for one, can't wait to pay $85,000 for a Chevy Cobalt so that low skilled

Skeptical Optimist

9/15/23 7:58am

Kids who barely graduated high school never had it so good

KingDave

9/15/23 8:02am

Sarcasm? Getting a union gig out of high school and being to raise a family, buy

vagabonder

9/15/23 8:08am

My grandpa had that 40 years ago, and for many parts of the country these Union jobs dried up long ago.

KingDave

9/15/23 8:21am

Things are different now, yes. But look at house/car/toys/vacations etc. then.

Madam Pattirini

9/15/23 8:23am

They still can. But now everyone thinks they need two cars, a 3000 sq ft home, 4 iPhones, cable and high speed internet

RobertCohn

9/15/23 9:14am

Where can someone own a home, a car, afford health insurance, plus support a

vagabonder

9/15/23 10:32am

Minimum wage is an unfair target, though.

Madam Pattirini

9/15/23 12:04pm

I don't find it offensive, though.

Madam Pattirini

9/15/23 8:10am

I get wanting more pay but 32 hrs a week is just laziness

CaliforniaCougar22

9/15/23 8:11am

I get the raises but going to a 32 hour work week.

9/15/23 8:42am

RE: I get the raises but going to a 32 hour work week.

Doogal McCougar

9/15/23 8:55am

All those workers are welcome to move there abs get a job.

9/15/23 9:08am

I own a ford and every part of that car says “made in Mexico” or assembled.

Magneto

9/15/23 8:47am

All three companies will be bankrupt in the next 15 years. They are dinosaurs.

9/15/23 9:11am

Not all three but likely one...

Catfish

9/15/23 10:26am

This will spur on the advancement of even more manufacturing automation. Why spend $40 billion on employee wages and

buhlcougar

9/15/23 9:14am

Exactly this.

BluebloodOR

9/15/23 9:18am

Exactly this +1

Mtbcoug

9/15/23 9:32am

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