Yes, I’m aware of the trade off. When people can’t afford large down payments,

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Jul 25, 2024
9:19:10am

Abe Froman Political Junky

Yes, I’m aware of the trade off. When people can’t afford large down payments,

they agree to higher monthly payments.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jul 25, 2024 at 9:19:10am

Message modified by Abe Froman on Jul 25, 2024 at 9:20:17am

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Abe Froman

Previous username: Rise and Shout
Bio page: Abe Froman
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Last login: Nov 9, 2024
Total posts: 90,400 (8,041 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

We need more empathy for the current generation

Blueto

Jul 25, 6:47am

Average home price Utah:$551,300. 20% down $110,000.

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 6:57am

First-time home buyers can’t afford the average home, Dub. It has always been

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 7:01am

My biggest issue is that starter homes used to have a yard. Now it’s a townhome.

Powerbait DPM

Jul 25, 7:07am

Check out these homes for half a million. This is the market now.

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 7:07am

The same houses in Oklahoma City are less than $100K

donnerstag

Jul 25, 7:25am

Even if someone gave you the land free, you couldn't build those houses now.

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 7:29am

True, but most of those homes have some "useful life" left

donnerstag

Jul 25, 7:34am

Not true. OKC is still cheap, but not that cheap.

Samsonite

Jul 25, 10:26pm

Do a redfin search of homes of the OKC metro area and 60 homes are under $100K

donnerstag

Jul 26, 7:05am

They aren’t at all “the same houses” in that post.

Samsonite

Jul 26, 11:38am

I double checked. To get to 2,000 SF

donnerstag

Jul 26, 11:56am

There are plenty of condos, townhomes, and small starter homes for less than $300k in the

Skeptical Optimist

Jul 25, 7:26am

The single family homes in that range are arguably knock downs at that price

donnerstag

Jul 25, 7:37am

That last one would be an upgrade for TNT

TNT

Jul 25, 8:21am

Since when is a 4/5 bedroom house a starter home? I think you're wrong. Those weren't starter homes back then either.

supertux

Jul 25, 7:50am

These weren’t ‘starter’ homes LOL adjust your expectations

kotacoug

Jul 25, 8:32am

My first home I bought in 2006 for 47,500 in MO. It was a true starter home.

MrSandman

Jul 25, 9:03am

A well below average home is $400K in Utah

donnerstag

Jul 25, 7:23am

Your down payment hypothetical ignores historical first-time buyer patterns.

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 7:35am

Agree. Most first time buyers are putting down 3-5%

donnerstag

Jul 25, 7:39am

That just means a loan on a higher principal balance, increasing the monthly

byuinva

Jul 25, 9:17am

Yes, I’m aware of the trade off. When people can’t afford large down payments,

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 9:19am

$500k loan w/ 3% down for 1st time home buyer $3150/month (30 yr) +200/mo PMI

BYU'01

Jul 25, 2:55pm

Does that include property tax and home insurance?

donnerstag

Jul 25, 4:01pm

No: principal, interest, PMI

BYU'01

Jul 25, 4:32pm

Well sure, but even a 1500 square foot town home costs over $400k nowadays.

cougarfan84

Jul 25, 8:14am

No.

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 8:23am

The 2 cheapest properties for sale in my zip code:

cougarfan84

Jul 25, 8:41am

Lots of people can’t afford to live in the zip codes they want. That’s one of

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 6:39pm

We should have more empathy for you guys who live in Utah, not this generation.

CougarScrub

Jul 25, 10:12am

I think it's the accumulation of generations of over-educated workers willing to

goodcleanfun

Jul 25, 10:24am

I don’t think UT salaries are lower. UT is almost entirely owned by US Fed Govt

BYU'01

Jul 25, 3:07pm

They are in certain fields. If you're a professional with an advanced degree,

CougarScrub

Jul 25, 3:20pm

Advanced degrees in anything but dentistry, podiatry, etc I’d say Utah competes

BYU'01

Jul 25, 4:36pm

Anybody who bought a house before 2019 should be doing nothing but expressing

elmerfudd

Jul 25, 7:01am

I’m thrilled I bought a home in 2020. Wish I would have stretched more.

orrin7

Jul 25, 7:05am

"But I worked really hard and bought a house in 1984 when rates were 13%!"

YOHONOMOTO

Jul 25, 7:12am

And here's another thing nobody is factoring in outside of housing costs

YOHONOMOTO

Jul 25, 7:45am

There's a potential flip side to that as well - dual income households

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 9:08am

You say that like it’s a good thing. It’s another bad thing for this younger

YOHONOMOTO

Jul 25, 10:25am

I agree its not good, and didnt say it was, only that its a legitimate factor

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 12:03pm

Oh, great news everyone, both parents can work now!!! Day care costs and stranger raising your kids doesn't matter...

Atmospheric_Cougar

Jul 25, 10:37am

Odd interpretation of something I didnt say

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 12:04pm

People play by the rules of the day.

Archaea

Jul 25, 7:20am

Agree with that. There are also some big advantages this generation has too

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 7:15am

So you’re silver lining for this gen not being able to afford a home is at least

OnEMoReTrY

Jul 25, 8:21am

So you pick out 1 line and ignore the entire rest of my post? Selective much?

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 9:05am

Low barriers to entry doesn't mean everything is great. It means increased competition -> more price wars etc.

Atmospheric_Cougar

Jul 25, 10:39am

Low barriers also make it easy to test, fail, restart without significant cost.

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 12:15pm

I agree with your points, it is not all bad. What is a viable long-term business model with low barriers to entry?

Atmospheric_Cougar

Jul 25, 2:33pm

You don't blame them for being lazy? Interesting.

coug10278

Jul 25, 7:15am

Are they lazy, though? Or just discouraged?

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 7:18am

Young people not having the same size families started before the housing issues

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 7:31am

… or … don’t insist on living in one of the highest demand housing markets.

goodcleanfun

Jul 25, 7:18am

True, but those places usually have worse job prospects.

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 7:21am

I think that has (almost) always been the case.

goodcleanfun

Jul 25, 7:23am

But the relative gap between home prices and income has grown

memento

Jul 25, 7:25am

Go east, young man. Texas (except Austin) is half as expensive to buy as Utah, and job prospects are just as good

byujag

Jul 25, 8:21am

Where I live is arguably one of the fastest growing areas of the US. And has some of the best jobs in just about every

unctoothman

Jul 25, 4:33pm

RE: … or … don’t insist on living in one of the highest demand housing markets.

Blue chunks

Jul 25, 7:55am

Where do you live?

Powerbait DPM

Jul 25, 8:03am

People making $40000 can buy a house in Missouri.

bigbluecougar

Jul 25, 7:19am

"I should buy all those houses in Missouri and rent them out 🤔" - foreign money

ryebrye

Jul 25, 8:05am

Well there are still plenty for sale so China hasn’t bought them all

bigbluecougar

Jul 25, 8:10am

The current generation needs to move to where housing is affordable.

Conan

Jul 25, 7:29am

That's still not great, though.

DubuMfalme

Jul 25, 7:31am

NIMBYs won't let affordable options near them, though.

runnincoug

Jul 25, 7:36am

Then give me more roads. Nobody wants to live in gridlock.

Spine

Jul 25, 6:17pm

We could recognize work from home helps out young families in multiple ways including this example.

Atmospheric_Cougar

Jul 25, 10:12pm

People have always had to make trade offs, Dub. This isn’t new.

Abe Froman

Jul 25, 7:41am

Yep

Forest Green

Jul 25, 7:43am

People have done this for years

bigbluecougar

Jul 25, 7:42am

That’s called life man. Moving away from family and starting your own. You don’t

kotacoug

Jul 25, 7:57am

Over the last 40 years, the average new home size has increased by over 150%

Skeptical Optimist

Jul 25, 7:31am

I just looked up our first home, we bought in 2003. It was 1399 sq ft and it

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 7:48am

How much did you pay for it and what is it worth now?

Odysseus

Jul 25, 8:44am

IIRC we paid about 145K and Zillow shows it 399k-419K (Boise, Idaho market)

BYUfan92

Jul 25, 9:07am

People are buying those homes because those are the homes that are being built.

memento

Jul 25, 8:53am

builders are building those homes because they're the ones that sell fastest.

HarlemCoug

Jul 25, 8:58am

That's my point; in a market with constrained supply, why would builders

memento

Jul 25, 11:16am

It wont last forever. Bubbles burst eventually

chismoso

Jul 25, 7:59am

Well, lazy will work for 'em. Wait ... lazy works.

KCFan85

Jul 25, 8:09am

"I don't blame this upcoming generation for being lazy or complaining." Really? No excuse for that period.

ManicBlue

Jul 25, 9:01am

I agree the housing market is tough, but new grads are now getting 3x what you

My2cents

Jul 25, 9:42am

More true starter homes are needed. 2 bedrooms, some storage. That was our

refunder

Jul 25, 10:27am

Empathy is needed on both sides.

Ham

Jul 25, 11:20am

I wouldn't say it's easy to make an $800 payment on less than $2k a month after

Thrill

Jul 25, 11:51am

You're not wrong in that home prices in certain parts of the the country have

Nagurski

Jul 25, 4:32pm

I hear you but my son is making $160,000 after graduating from UVU 4 years ago.

O Gaucho

Jul 25, 10:14pm

I agree with you. I thought it was tough for me (mid 40s) but even harder for

Mitty

Jul 26, 11:18am

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