It’s a tough problem to resolve, because of you limit the impact of penalties,

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Jan 21, 2020
11:29:35am

russkiejedi All-American

It’s a tough problem to resolve, because of you limit the impact of penalties,

you increase the incentive for the defense to just wipe out a player at the slightest hint they might break a play. You’d almost have to introduce something like a flagrant foul penalty that would give a first down if the defense did something blatant.

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russkiejedi

Bio page: russkiejedi
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Last login: Sep 27, 2024
Total posts: 140,174 (56,407 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Thoughts on this new way of doing "onside kicks"?

BlueVU

1/21/20 8:56am

Just silly. No team should have the ability of getting the ball back after scoring without earning it.

Indy Coug

1/21/20 8:58am

Does an onside kick “earn” it?

AD4

1/21/20 9:00am

About 1000x more than just saying "yeah, we'll take the ball at the 25"

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:01am

For a single play. I guess they also have the ball on the kickoff, they just have to be able to catch it after 10 yards.

AD4

1/21/20 9:02am

What's more likely, getting an onside kick or converting a 4th & 15?

Byron McNertney

1/21/20 10:03am

They're statisically the same, which is why the picked that as the alternative.

1/21/20 10:21am

Yeah- because they have to execute a play, fight for possession, etc.

thaws

1/21/20 9:05am

Agreed, but not any more so than 4th and 15 (or 20).

AD4

1/21/20 9:07am

I agree- but I think that the argument was that they HAVE possession at that point already, did not earn possession

thaws

1/21/20 9:16am

I disagree. On a 4th and 15 the defense could be called for any number of penalties

unctoothman

1/21/20 10:42am

The penalty point is a good point.

AD4

1/21/20 10:45am

It's my only real objection. If you look at it, the likelihood of converting 3rd

unctoothman

1/21/20 10:56am

It’s a tough problem to resolve, because of you limit the impact of penalties,

russkiejedi

1/21/20 11:29am

Yes, but then you give the yards and replay the down. So they are still hurt.

unctoothman

1/21/20 11:35am

It needs to be an extreme risk, but have the chance of success that onside kicks had before the rule change.

shimmy

1/21/20 11:37am

That requires defensive discipline. Do your job and don't screw it up.

TailgateU

1/21/20 11:05am

Sure it does. But so does the lead that a team has worked 58 minutes to build.

unctoothman

1/21/20 11:20am

They'd earn it converting a 4th and 15

Deleted

1/21/20 9:01am

They didn't earn the opportunity to have a 4th and 15.

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:01am

They did. They scored.

1/21/20 9:10am

They earned their points, but they didn't earn a turnover

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:12am

And they still have to earn that turnover with a difficult play, the same as an onside kick. Except if they are

AD4

1/21/20 9:14am

Most of the time they'll punt, giving the opposing team an opportunity to block

mwcoug

1/21/20 9:57am

They also didn't earn the right to kick it to themselves, either.

foofcoug

1/21/20 9:16am

Exactly. Why even have the possibility of recovering an onside kick? Just give the other team possession at the 25

AD4

1/21/20 9:26am

We would see more anger about PI calls giving them the first down, than anything

Cougar TD

1/21/20 9:15am

Make it nfl blitz rules

Deleted

1/21/20 9:18am

that's an interesting point

Scooter

1/21/20 9:21am

How is this not earning it? 4th and 15 isn't exactly a gimme

BigTex

1/21/20 9:01am

RE: How is this not earning it? 4th and 15 isn't exactly a gimme

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:02am

RE: How is this not earning it? 4th and 15 isn't exactly a gimme

AD4

1/21/20 9:03am

This is arguing that the rules can’t change because they shouldn’t change.

russkiejedi

1/21/20 9:36am

First, it's a solution in search of a problem, which is already a red flag.

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:38am

Then why even allow an onside kick? Why even give the kicking team an opportunity to gain possession before the

AD4

1/21/20 9:44am

The other team has the ability to prevent them getting the ball back on an onsides kick. In fact, they have

Indy Coug

1/21/20 9:47am

So on a one play scenario, does the opposing team not have the opportunity to play defense?

AD4

1/21/20 9:51am

That is a valid opinion, but it’s an opinion. One that can be expressed with “I

russkiejedi

1/21/20 9:50am

The problem is that the current safety rules have rendered the old time onside kick almost useless.

shimmy

1/21/20 11:25am

The odds of gaining 15 yards on one offensive down have to be

1/21/20 10:01am

3rd and 15 was 16% in 2017

Indy Coug

1/21/20 10:03am

It’s been the onside kick alternative bantered about for a while. I’d like to see it implemented.

AD4

1/21/20 8:58am

It happened in that one league last year that folded before the season was over.

foofcoug

1/21/20 9:05am

I'd prefer a coin toss when under the 2:00-minute warning.

kccougar

1/21/20 9:00am

That definitely seems more in line with tradition in the NFL.

RobAdams

1/21/20 9:03am

This will make it difficult to “hold teams accountable.”

CougsBeatU

1/21/20 9:02am

Onside kicks are a slim chance of gaining possession...which is fair to the team in the lead. They earned the lead durin

Grit for Brains

1/21/20 9:06am

I think something a bit longer would be better—maybe a 4th and 20.

AD4

1/21/20 9:08am

Id much rather have something with a chance. Gimping onside kicks was dumb

Deleted

1/21/20 9:09am

I think it's a great idea to use the pro-bowl or an all-star game (baseball/basketball) to test out new rule ideas.

Bert609

1/21/20 9:10am

I like it. I suspect they'll get rid of kickoffs eventually with this as well. You get the ball at the 25 4th and 15.

1/21/20 9:11am

4th and 30 is a lot more realistic, would be more fair and exciting

Hsaru

1/21/20 9:13am

It doesn't fit the normal flow of the game, like OT rules in college

1/21/20 9:18am

It would be better if instead of offering to give an opponent the ball at the 25

TailgateU

1/21/20 9:18am

They should limit this to once or twice per game. There might be some teams that

AggieWeekendCougar

1/21/20 9:19am

Let them do that; that just gives the losing team a much better opportunity

OGSuperfan

1/21/20 9:20am

If that's the case, why do most teams punt at 4th and 15?

TailgateU

1/21/20 9:25am

Maybe last two minutes only.

thaws

1/21/20 9:26am

If they’re going to do it they need to do it all the time. No team up 14 points

akmewg

1/21/20 9:56am

I don't like contrived rules to try and make the end of games more interesting

mudpupper

1/21/20 9:23am

Yep. I call it a "seminary rule". From this scenario:

1/21/20 9:47am

50/50 long balls with refs calling pass interference like crazy.

valcorger

1/21/20 9:25am

I don't like it. Your team got in the position to be down and need a lucky

cougaman

1/21/20 9:28am

Don’t like it. Gets rid of the surprise onside kick, and who wants to see a team retain the ball on a defensive holding

CouchPotato

1/21/20 9:39am

It should be 4th and 15 every time. Teams would line up in punt formation and

TailgateU

1/21/20 9:45am

I actually love this,opening and half kickoffs only the rest are punts which are

akmewg

1/21/20 10:01am

I'm not sure, but I like the false start change.

Belboz

1/21/20 10:03am

Anything that gets kicking out of the game is fine in my book.

kotacoug

1/21/20 10:04am

Yeah- who needs feet in football

thaws

1/21/20 10:24am

4th and 15. Kick a FG, get the ball back 4th and 15. Kick another FG ..........

Count Cougar

1/21/20 10:21am

You'd still have to have a decent drive to kick a FG. Why is a FG relevant?

RobAdams

1/21/20 10:24am

Perfect strategy if you can consistently hit at 90 yards out.

1/21/20 10:50am

That's some fantasy-green rake stuff there, what 9pts a field goal? Who needs

1/21/20 1:17pm

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