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Jun 6, 2023
3:27
:03
pm
Scratch
All-American
He says no such thing. The formulas it's based on are right there, and there is
no weighting. Show me where he says there is weighting on the final product.
See the link below where Massey says the same thing for his.
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Scratch
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Scratch
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Last login
Oct 4, 2024
Total posts
12,767 (393 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Has any team ever received more praise/pub for back to back 4 loss seasons than
BamaCoug
6/6/23 12:21pm
No, nor higher AP end of season rankings.
SageOwl
6/6/23 12:25pm
This is what I can't understand--they lost 4 games, often to average teams, won
Incentivize
6/6/23 1:50pm
It's interesting that many voters care more who you beat than who you lost to
BamaCoug
6/6/23 2:43pm
I think it's a pendulum and it's swung that way as a result of the committee
krindorr
6/6/23 2:53pm
There's a disconnect on the Rose Bowls in particular
TFL
6/7/23 8:59pm
RE: There's a disconnect on the Rose Bowls in particular
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/7/23 9:51pm
Here's what you don't see. The Rose Bowl is just another bowl game tie in for the conf champ. It just so happens
Soupie
6/7/23 10:06pm
It's a big deal for a school like Utah. Huge. CFB is dominated by the concept of blue bloods and brand
TFL
6/8/23 12:13am
BYU went 10-3 overall, 5-0 vs the PAC, 1-0 vs UU, and was ranked lower in 2021?
Brandoblueblood
6/6/23 3:30pm
An average team going against the PAC 12
Ted Lasso
6/6/23 12:26pm
Yep look at us in 2021. Pac was easy - Sun belt and MWC not so much
johnnybyu
6/6/23 1:27pm
Heck, even BYU went 6-1 vs the PAC12 the last two years
Indy Coug
6/6/23 12:32pm
Did you know Utah is favored in Vegas by 10 points over Florida to start next season?
RdF3
6/6/23 12:32pm
Maybe they finally get that monkey off their back (no OOC P5 wins), UF stinketh
BamaCoug
6/6/23 12:34pm
It took an exceptionally bad SDSU team last year for Utah to finally get an FBS
BYUtka
6/6/23 12:39pm
They were favored at UF last year too
coug16
6/6/23 12:35pm
It's strange that the main computer rankings, which take all of that into
Scratch
6/6/23 12:39pm
The same bad/biased data is fed in, so of course the same bad/biased results
BYUtka
6/6/23 12:41pm
Huh? You mean biased data like game results? Game results are the antithesis
Scratch
6/6/23 12:47pm
Nope. I'm not referencing simple game results.
BYUtka
6/6/23 12:52pm
What do you think is going into those computer models? What is the biased data?
Scratch
6/6/23 12:54pm
Data that overrated PAC 12 wins, teams, etc. It's not that complicated.
BYUtka
6/6/23 1:43pm
Do you understand how data works? This is insane. The actual results go in and
Scratch
6/6/23 1:54pm
RE: Do you understand how data works? This is insane. The actual results go in
imdocrob
6/6/23 1:57pm
So the biases of the person inputting a score into a computer impact how the
Scratch
6/6/23 2:01pm
Are you taking crazy pills? This isn't that complicated.
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:03pm
But you can't explain how it's biased? Got it.
Scratch
6/6/23 2:07pm
It got biased at the beginning to help protect the P5 and maintain the current
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:11pm
No, they don't. Go find some interviews from Sagarin or Pomeroy or the other
Scratch
6/6/23 2:42pm
"Once the (biased) grid is in place, there is no (additional) bias."
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:47pm
No, the initial considerations and weights are completely removed because they
Scratch
6/6/23 3:03pm
RE: So the biases of the person inputting a score into a computer impact how the
imdocrob
6/6/23 2:05pm
We're not talking about pre-season rankings. We're talking about end-of-season
Scratch
6/6/23 2:06pm
We know. That is absolutely what we are talking about.
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:11pm
You've already had it explained to you multiple times, so I'm guessing a 3rd
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 2:11pm
And why don't you post some of these unbiased computer rankings results
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 2:21pm
RE: And why don't you post some of these unbiased computer rankings results
imdocrob
6/6/23 2:29pm
RE: And why don't you post some of these unbiased computer rankings results
imdocrob
6/6/23 2:31pm
<< Deleted >>
imdocrob
6/6/23 2:39pm
Here's the most well-respected one, Sagarin:
Scratch
6/6/23 2:43pm
Here's Massey, one of the other most respected, with Utah at 11.
Scratch
6/6/23 2:46pm
So they only put in W-L with attached score? So the computer ranks a win over
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:02pm
No, they don't "weight" games from certain conferences. They put in the results
Scratch
6/6/23 2:12pm
Lol. Ok, now I know you are trolling.
BYUtka
6/6/23 2:23pm
seriously, what a clown, lol. Hey Scratch, why don't you link to where you're
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 2:28pm
Here you go, enjoy the reading.
Scratch
6/6/23 3:02pm
Wow, pretty much what I expected. Please, now show where he claims that there's
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 3:24pm
He says no such thing. The formulas it's based on are right there, and there is
Scratch
6/6/23 3:27pm
So after YOUR asserting a claim over and over and over about non
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 3:30pm
even in a room full or yoots, you stand alone
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 3:37pm
The inputs are included in pre-season and early season stuff because there are
Scratch
6/6/23 3:46pm
Here's another one from Massey:
Scratch
6/6/23 3:07pm
nope, that's not one either, sorry, did you even read the link you sent
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 3:29pm
What are you talking about? Give me the exact link and quote.
Scratch
6/6/23 3:48pm
And how does the computer know how to analyze? It doesn't do that on its own.
Ungoy
6/6/23 4:55pm
They look at the results and analyze what happened on the field.
Scratch
6/6/23 6:55pm
Analyze how? How does the computer know how to analyze anything?
Ungoy
6/6/23 9:04pm
So the people behind the programming are lying?
Scratch
6/6/23 9:12pm
Lying??? Who said anything about lying? They are over valuing and weighting
BYUtka
6/6/23 9:21pm
Nope, they have said they don't do that. There is no weighting like that.
Scratch
6/6/23 10:48pm
They all just confirmed what I and everyone else has been trying to explain to
BYUtka
6/7/23 7:19am
Are you always this slow?
Ungoy
6/6/23 10:37pm
You know human pills are used in the computer rankings right?
ColonelMustard
6/6/23 4:52pm
No they’re not.
Scratch
6/6/23 6:55pm
Yes, they are. Beating a "ranked team" is more valuable to the algorithms.
BYUtka
6/6/23 8:57pm
Beating a good team I the internal computer metrics is what gives you a boost in
Scratch
6/6/23 9:14pm
What defines a "Good team." Is an undefeated The New Mexico State as good as an
BYUtka
6/6/23 9:18pm
Of course not. It would be based on the internal metrics of the computer program
Scratch
6/6/23 9:23pm
So it is "magic" that tells it's the SEC is better... Not programing. You are
BYUtka
6/6/23 9:36pm
Not how it works. SEC teams are, on average, rated higher because they have
Scratch
6/7/23 8:16pm
How different are the computers now than the bcs? Because the bcs computer
ColonelMustard
6/7/23 12:12pm
Right, it included human polls and computer rankings in its formula. The best
Scratch
6/7/23 12:23pm
Where did the computer rankings have TCU to begin the year? How'd that turn out?
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 12:58pm
What are you talking about? Im talking about end of season rankings that have
Scratch
6/6/23 1:04pm
My point is biased people and imperfect computer calcs. can both be wrong.
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 1:07pm
So every major computer analysis, that weighs and measures all games and how
Scratch
6/6/23 1:32pm
You are putting words in my mouth. Chill out. Imperfect does not equal bad.
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 3:59pm
This whole discussion involves bias. Not perfection or imperfection. That’s all
Scratch
6/6/23 4:41pm
Agreed
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 4:53pm
I don't actually know, but I assume PLAYING in a CCG game and Rose Bowl causes
moknowssports
6/6/23 5:50pm
"There are no 'quality' games. Ohio, The New Mexico State, Alabama... All the
BYUtka
6/6/23 6:41pm
The problem is they do good on paper, but not so much on the field unless playing PAC teams.
RealityCheck
6/6/23 1:29pm
On paper vs. on the field? What do you think the computer analyses are
Scratch
6/6/23 1:33pm
RE: On paper vs. on the field? What do you think the computer analyses are
imdocrob
6/6/23 1:53pm
The computer does what it is programmed to do, and it was programmed by people
BeardedBroker
6/6/23 2:12pm
But none of the programs do what people here are saying or implying they do,
Scratch
6/6/23 3:05pm
You know that how?
BeardedBroker
6/6/23 4:28pm
They influence each other. PAC is so incestuous, it's hard to know who's good.
Brandoblueblood
6/6/23 3:33pm
but yeah... there is no argument other than inflate Pac12 egos conspiracy
Strawhat4life
6/6/23 6:53pm
The PAC 12 South finished ranked behind the B1G 10 West. Yes, the B1G div. won by an 8-4 Purdue team
slatecoug
6/6/23 7:20pm
Can you remind me again who has the better winning % in PAC games over the last 2 years, BYU or Utah?
slatecoug
6/6/23 8:59pm
what does that have to do with anything? This thread is not about which team is
Strawhat4life
6/7/23 6:05am
It shows how ridiculous Utah getting all that praise just for beating PAC teams really is.
slatecoug
6/8/23 8:20pm
and a team that can't beat ANYBODY out of conference. It's crazy
runnincoug
6/6/23 12:45pm
<< Deleted >>
cougarmeister
6/6/23 1:50pm
The pac 12 has a sterling 3-9 record the past 2 yrs in bowl games as well.
ManicBlue
6/6/23 1:52pm
Yeah but the computers say Utah is amazing and top 10!!!
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 4:00pm
Utah beat the Heisman winner & the best team money can buy - twice.
ALUF 1990
6/6/23 2:33pm
RE: Utah beat the Heisman winner & the best team money can buy - twice.
imdocrob
6/6/23 2:41pm
Williams played nearly the entire game and threw 41 passes, but he was less
ALUF 1990
6/6/23 2:53pm
RE: Williams played nearly the entire game and threw 41 passes, but he was less
imdocrob
6/6/23 3:41pm
Most impressive wins of BYU Independence (by opponent CFP/AP/Sagarin rank, not by brand name)
krindorr
6/6/23 4:59pm
1 correction. That Tennessee Team was not bad. They went 8-5 that year and were 5-3 in SEC play.
slatecoug
6/6/23 8:58pm
Yeah, I put that as the most impressive win among the non-ranked group
krindorr
6/7/23 4:12am
Yewt fans: "We were playoff contenders the last two years! We almost won the
Digital Gangsta
6/7/23 2:13pm
Big12 >>>>> Pac12, shoot 2009 MWC >> 2023 PacX
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 2:41pm
Was Oregon an MWC team? What does that make BYU? BYU vs USC would
ALUF 1990
6/6/23 2:55pm
No need to discuss woulda, I wouldn't say BYU vs USC was ugly, but we did win
Digital Gangsta
6/6/23 4:49pm
RE: Utah beat the Heisman winner & the best team money can buy - twice.
ManicBlue
6/6/23 3:19pm
Yawn
LaVellIfIKnow
6/6/23 3:22pm
Tulane also beat USC, should they be waiting for a call from the B1G?
cougarmeister
6/6/23 3:27pm
They are an AAU member so ... 🙂
ManicBlue
6/6/23 3:47pm
LOL, BYU went undefeated vs the PAC and beat Utah (conf. champ) the same year.
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/6/23 3:46pm
The usc team that lost to Tulane in the bowl. Not a great example to use
BYU '80
6/6/23 4:39pm
Ummm…we won the pac 12 title in 2021, not you guys.
Idacoug
6/6/23 4:54pm
We aren’t winning a big 12 title anytime soon but that’s because it’s way toughe
ColonelMustard
6/6/23 4:54pm
Everybody beat that team.
RealityCheck
6/6/23 6:02pm
This is some high quality smack right here. Truth brotha'.
DazeofBlue
6/6/23 4:10pm
RE: Has any team ever received more praise/pub for back to back 4 loss seasons
longtimeYfan
6/6/23 6:15pm
Key is winning high profile games on big stages, high MOVs and forgivable losses
TFL
6/6/23 8:02pm
Remind everyone again who has the better winning % in PAC games over the last 2 years, BYU or Utah?
slatecoug
6/6/23 8:27pm
Since Utah last won a P5 OOC game, BYU has notched road wins at Camp Randall and Rocky Top, both much more difficult
slatecoug
6/6/23 8:51pm
RE: Since Utah last won a P5 OOC game, BYU has notched road wins at Camp Randall
TUNUte
6/7/23 8:01pm
RE: Since Utah last won a P5 OOC game, BYU has notched road wins at Camp Randall
imdocrob
6/7/23 8:08pm
Please tell me anything noteworthy BYU has done since 1996
TUNUte
6/7/23 8:47pm
RE: Please tell me anything noteworthy BYU has done since 1996
imdocrob
6/7/23 9:05pm
RE: Please tell me anything noteworthy BYU has done since 1996
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/7/23 10:12pm
We definitely know beating a ranked Utah team 2 years ago wasn't noteworthy. Oh wait, that's 1 of the years Ute fans are
slatecoug
6/8/23 1:40pm
That or you could just point out the fact that we have
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/7/23 9:57pm
That's SCOREBOARD in a season that the Ute Fans can't stop telling everyone how great their football team was.
slatecoug
6/8/23 1:44pm
Ute fans. They beat their chest about an amazing year, and ignore the losses.
Atmospheric_Cougar
6/8/23 3:54pm
Kind of reminds you of losing to San Diego St.
slatecoug
6/8/23 1:35pm
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