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Dec 14, 2018
11:43
:41
am
Skeptical Optimist
All-American
Obviously in this example you would be a bum living on the street
That doesn't make you fiscally responsible, even though you make $100k and spend less than that.
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Skeptical Optimist
Previous username
workindev
Bio page
Skeptical Optimist
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Last login
Sep 30, 2024
Total posts
82,889 (4,436 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
In the 23 months since Trump's inauguration, the S&P has yielded an average annual return of 7.9%. Below the S&P's
Pimpin4Paradise
All-American
12/14/18 10:32am
Anyone who believes the president is directly responsible for the stock market
SandYFan
12/14/18 10:33am
Including the President
CSoul
12/14/18 10:34am
Correct.
SandYFan
12/14/18 10:34am
Then Individual 1 is The Quintessential Idiot
Uncle Bluto
12/14/18 11:29am
I guess I’m an idiot then, thanks for pointing that out.
chazen
12/14/18 12:48pm
The S&P is a horrible indicator for how well the economy is doing
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:36am
I'm just going off Trump's own measure. He's the one that has cited stock market performance as a testament to his
Pimpin4Paradise
12/14/18 10:52am
That's because he is a moron
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:52am
Which was really my initial point.
Pimpin4Paradise
12/14/18 10:54am
I’m confused, you’re down the rabbit hole defending him, yet u recognize that
MatthiasG
12/15/18 5:56pm
Please stop making sense. You’re ruining the whole vibe of this board !
chazen
12/14/18 12:48pm
uh, is that how we measure it?
jwf
12/14/18 10:36am
And it's impossible to have a fiscally irresponsible tax cut. Spending defines
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:36am
So if you pass a huge tax cut without cutting spending, what is that called?
mik3
12/14/18 10:40am
Spending too much
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:40am
And what do you think will happen to the deficit in that scenario, when you
mik3
12/14/18 10:48am
Time to cut spending, looks like.
SandYFan
12/14/18 10:49am
Overdue time to cut spending, actually. It should have been done when the tax
mik3
12/14/18 10:57am
Again, revenue hasn't been cut
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:58am
RE: Again, revenue hasn't been cut
mik3
12/14/18 11:05am
No way anyone could ever know that.
jkccoug
12/14/18 4:04pm
Federal revenues have never been higher,
HenderCoug
12/14/18 5:16pm
Inverse democrat policy
pegushin
12/14/18 10:41am
Here's the funny thing: Democrats passing a tax hike along with increased
mik3
12/14/18 10:49am
No tax hike is ever fiscally responsible
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:56am
That's not accurate. It might not be fiscally conservative, but if it reduces
mik3
12/14/18 10:58am
No, fiscal responsibility is defined by what the money is spent on, now how that
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:08am
Not sure what definition you're using. The uber-libs over at AEI make the point
mik3
12/14/18 11:11am
Let me put it this way
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:19am
That's based on SO's definition of "fiscal responsibility" being limited to
mik3
12/14/18 11:24am
That's based on common sense. Governments have been issuing debt securities
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:33am
So it is your personal definition. I cited AEI. It's okay if it's your
mik3
12/14/18 11:38am
No, both are important. In a household, fiscal responsibility is defined by how
chilango
12/14/18 11:15am
So by your definition, somebody who earns $100k and spends it all on hookers
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:18am
If they make $100 million a year, then sure, that's play money. If they earn
chilango
12/14/18 11:23am
If I make $100k and spend $99k on hookers, I'm spending less than I earned. But
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:34am
Of course you're not, because you need more that $1 K to cover all your other
chilango
12/14/18 11:36am
Obviously in this example you would be a bum living on the street
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:43am
I agree, because you don't earn enough to support your hooker habit.
chilango
12/14/18 11:46am
Are you really arguing that more income would make this responsible?
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:56am
Fiscally speaking, yes. Or at least less irresponsible. Morally or ethically is
chilango
12/14/18 11:58am
Let me put it this way. What is more fiscally responsible:
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 12:05pm
The latter. Now let me put it this way — which of these is more fiscally
chilango
12/14/18 12:20pm
Actually, in the context of government, the first is preferred
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 12:56pm
So you think it's more fiscally responsible for a government to spend more than
chilango
12/14/18 1:05pm
No, I said it's irresponsible for the government to accumulate assets from
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 1:10pm
Now this I can agree with.
chilango
12/14/18 1:13pm
The problem is that the govt has cut revenues and increased spending. It is
chilango
12/14/18 10:41am
I read an article yesterday saying receipts were essentially the same before and
byubyu
12/14/18 10:45am
If you exclude the revenue increases from increased tariffs, which are just
chilango
12/14/18 10:54am
And tax cuts have no effect on whether the economy expands or not?
rcbyufan
12/14/18 10:56am
Increased deficit spending does, which can take the form of tax cuts combined
chilango
12/14/18 11:00am
It's certainly not proven that they cut revenues. That's a faith position.
rcbyufan
12/14/18 10:45am
Not really, it's a math question.
chilango
12/14/18 10:55am
Tariff revenues are less than 1% of budgeted revenues
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:57am
They're much higher now than in many decades, and without them, revenues would
chilango
12/14/18 11:01am
Ha. You really believe that? The overall economy is so complex there is
rcbyufan
12/14/18 10:59am
"A few months before they passed, the Congressional Budget Office predicted the
chilango
12/14/18 11:39am
CBO forecasts are not anywhere near science. Closer to astrology. Now I'm not
rcbyufan
12/14/18 11:44am
CBO forecasts are non-partisan & infinitely closer to science than to astrology.
chilango
12/14/18 11:51am
If you taught 1000 people to do CBO forecasts and then locked then in separate
rcbyufan
12/14/18 12:01pm
Depends on the economists and the astrologers. And more importantly, every one
chilango
12/14/18 12:23pm
Ha. True. I'm obviously taking an extreme position here. I don't mean to malign
rcbyufan
12/14/18 2:09pm
No revenues have been cut
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:55am
The government revenue is up 3.5% year on year. Nice try.
AZ Coug
12/14/18 4:32pm
"Let's decrease tax revenues and not touch spending" being sold as not being
mik3
12/14/18 10:50am
The tax cuts did not decrease revenues
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:54am
Would tax revenues had been higher with higher tax rates? There's your
mik3
12/14/18 10:57am
No. How much money the government seizes from the private sector
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 10:59am
That's not how it works. By the way, your faith based position is just as
rcbyufan
12/14/18 11:01am
I understand there are dynamic effects, and lowering tax rates will have an
mik3
12/14/18 11:08am
Yes they did, they are lower than they would have been without the tax cuts.
chilango
12/14/18 11:03am
Incorrect. Customs duties are only $3.1 billion higher than projected
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:16am
Nope. "A few months before they passed, the Congressional Budget Office
chilango
12/14/18 11:27am
And incremental tariff revenues collected were over $4 billion as of mid-Sept.,
chilango
12/14/18 11:33am
Read the Treasury report. Tariffs are $41.3 billion out of $3.3 Trillion in
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:38am
The math doesn't work if they collected $4.1 billion of revenue from incremental
chilango
12/14/18 11:49am
The figure I'm quoting comes directly from the Treasury report this week
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:55am
Ramped debt. Period
MatthiasG
12/15/18 5:53pm
Fiscally irresponsible? Cut all taxes for anyone earning more than 150,000/year.
Y2k
12/14/18 11:58pm
Wasting recession fighting tools at peak stock mkt, yeah, such thing exists
MatthiasG
12/15/18 5:43pm
A tax cut means more money in my pocket. I'm done caring about how much those
byubyu
12/14/18 10:37am
A sour market is money out of your pocket. A lot more than the pittance you probably saw from a
Pimpin4Paradise
12/14/18 10:53am
No it's not.
byubyu
12/14/18 10:55am
A sour market is a great opportunity to put money in your pocket
Skeptical Optimist
12/14/18 11:27am
Ha Ha Ha Ha
Uncle Bluto
12/14/18 11:30am
The S&P is not the economy.
zonacougar
12/14/18 11:03am
Markets don’t wait for inauguration, start your measurement on 11/9/2016
DirtyWater
12/14/18 11:04am
Someone has bought into the Trump idea that his administration started on
mik3
12/14/18 11:14am
You don’t think markets started pricing before he was officially in office?
itsuptoyou
12/14/18 12:25pm
To an extent, sure. But I don't buy that everything that happened starting then
mik3
12/14/18 1:54pm
I seem to remember a certain liberal economist named Kruger telling the
Monomachos
12/14/18 2:37pm
I think the numbers are different if you do it from the election results instead
AFewThoughts
12/14/18 11:37am
Oops looks like I didn't scan all the comments see argument above. I'm a hack!
AFewThoughts
12/14/18 11:39am
Very biased.it's more fair to measure market performance from election night.
roseyscenario
12/14/18 2:47pm
Haven't tax revenues gone up? What are you talking about?
byuwahoo
12/14/18 3:46pm
No, down slightly. And spending up. Deficit is mushrooming.
chilango
12/14/18 3:52pm
I know spending is up, in part because of increased interest rates.
byuwahoo
12/14/18 4:02pm
Interest rates impact private spending, not government spending
Sumguy
12/15/18 7:34am
Dead wrong.
AZ Coug
12/14/18 4:46pm
Do you have any data to support that claim?
Pimpin4Paradise
12/14/18 5:04pm
Yep. Easy to find online. Up 3.5% year on year.
AZ Coug
12/14/18 5:07pm
RE: Yep. Easy to find online. Up 3.5% year on year.
Sandstone Cougar
12/14/18 5:20pm
Wrong. Here is the actual data, which I also posted above: "A few months before
chilango
12/14/18 8:43pm
Yes, you are dead wrong. Actual data with links posted above.
chilango
12/14/18 8:45pm
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